OK -Boring another (different) oil thread

[PhilipA]

I have always been a bit surprised when I change my 92 RRC Borg Warner transfer oil at just how dirty the ATF gets at a short mileage.

I use Castrol Transmax Z and change it regularly but it is always dirty grey/green .
I changed the front seal yesterday and checked the level and after only 5KK it is noticably dirty. To me this is my chain slowly getting longer.

I did an internet search and one site "Difflock.com" apparently makes a synthetic 75W-90 that they reckon would be good stuff in a BW. Borg warner says nothing I could find. AFAIR all Oil companies just recommend Dexron but I note Castrol recommends TQF
What are the opinions of our resident oil specialists. Would 75W-90 Gear oil be better at reducing chain wear? Should I add some Moly or teflon to the ATF or 75-90?
The car has done 195KK so the chain is probably already quite worn, but the viscous is still OK and there are no sloppy noises and I would like to defer the inevitable rebuild as long as possible.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

Just did another search on Bob the Oil Guys forum, where someone posted that thicker oil In a B Wmay cause the oil pump to be less efficient.
Regard sPhilip A

[rick130]

Philip, I'm unfamiliar with the BW t/case and what style of pump it uses, but is the breather hose still connected properly ?
That amount of debris/contamination sounds suspicious.

FWIW I've been using 75W-90 manual trans fluids in the R380 for quite a while now, (Torco RTF and now Motul Gear 300) and they work well, but it does use steel gears in the pump.

I've also used 75W-90 MT's (mostly Syntrax) in the chain drive Patrol t/case from scratch (ATF is specified and is what most everyone uses, although I did find an obscure reference to 75W-90 being OK too in a Nissan manual way back when we bought the car)
The thing has clocked about 335,000km now and no oil leaks, no noise and still works beautifully and the oil looks great when I drain it.

[brianwood]

The thing has clocked about 335,000km now and no oil leaks, no noise and still works beautifully and the oil looks great when I drain it.

Rick, that's more to do with being a Nissan than the type of oil

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

The BW doesnt have a breather on it. Grey may mean you have the chain running on the case somewhere or you have a bearing spinning in the case. If its the actual chain wearing, get it out now before it breaks as it will be a catastrophic failure!

The pump is a dual pin type pump with a thin suction tube running from the base up to the pump in the top of the case. Ocasionally the suction tube can be dislodged from its holding clip and hits the chain which either cuts straight thru it or at least leaves a hole that reduces the suction to the pump.
75w90 is far too thick for the pump to pickup properly. Another option is for a full synthetic engine oil like a 0w40 or 50 Mobil1. The beauty with the BW is that there is not a lot of load on most components other than the roller bearings and the Morse chain and a synthetic engine oil has the lube ability to cope with the chains requirements. However, if your in a cold climate, even with a 0w oil, it may still suffer cold pickup starvation.
I would maybe look towards a synthetic ATF but with no direct frictional wear, you shouldnt get any discolouration at all. I do mine around every 40,000 when i do the auto fluid and it comes out no different to when it went in.
Me thinks you have bigger problems.

Rick, correct me if I'm wrong but Transmax Z doesnt quite stack up to a DXII spec does it??

I have a spare BW TC on my bench that i have been meaning to strip & inspect for ages but just havent got to it. Maybe should do a tute on it....

Philip, I'm on my iPhone atm and not close to my PC, but if you have Rave, the complete breakdown is in there.
It can be hard to work out which end is up when you first look at the drawings but its pretty basic setup.
Let me know if you dont have it and i can maybe extricate the section into a pdf and email it to you.
Its pretty hard trying to find supply for bearing components for these other than thru LR which is some of the reason i havent bothered with mine yet. I have done major searches on BW and BTR websites but come up with nothing however i have the whole LR part number list (somewhere). Short of pulling it apart and actually checking for actual bearing numbers.....

Cheers

Andrew

[Hoges]

FWIW I switched to Mobil Agri Fluid 424 (SAE80) about 3 yrs and 32,000 km ago for the T/F case in my MY2000 P38. The transfer case became progressively quieter and these days, transmission noise in the cabin is barely noticeable... I had occasion to replace the VC unit about 10,000km ago. I collected the oil from the t/f case and suspended several magnets in it for 3 days...not a trace of metal filings anywhere. As I was short of replacement oil I refilled from the original can and topped up with the used stuff Have since done a heavy trip to CY and it is still performing faultlessly...

[PhilipA]

Rick, correct me if I'm wrong but Transmax Z doesnt quite stack up to a DXII spec does it??

Transmax Z is a full synthetic DX 111 spec fluid and approved by ZF for use in 4HP22. AFAIK it is the best available DX111 fluid.

Philip, I'm on my iPhone atm and not close to my PC, but if you have Rave, the complete breakdown is in there.
It can be hard to work out which end is up when you first look at the drawings but its pretty basic setup.

I have a Land Rover service manual for a 38A BW which I believe is basically the same though clocked. It is not that urgent as the transfer is quiet with no noticable chain slop.

The fluid colour is not that bad that I would pull it apart however I was seeking others views on suitable oils. I spent several hours reading Bob is the Oil Guy's site last night and I will add some moly to the ATF rather than try another oil.

I will drain a bit and take a photo.

Regards Philip A

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Transmax Z is a full synthetic DX 111 spec fluid and approved by ZF for use in 4HP22. AFAIK it is the best available DX111 fluid.

Ahhhh, Z, i was thinking Transmax M.

[PhilipA]

OK , I removed some oil from the filler with a syringe and decanted it.

I also placed a rare earth magnet in the glass of oil to see if any metallic particles stuck to it. I would have expected a "sludge" to cling to the surface of the strong magnet, but nothing appeared to stick.

Yet the photos will show that the oil is clearly discoloured.

I now think that the discolouration could be rubber from the failing front seal that I replaced this week. I will be changing teh rear next week, althouh I have now added 150CC of Liquimoly so there will be no colour indication.
RegardAttachment 30381

Attachment 30382

Attachment 30383s Philip A

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

Thats why im thinkin it might be the case as its alloy and wont stick to a magnet.
The main failure with these is the chain rubs thru the lower part of the case.