Replacing Td5 fuel pump with Bosch 044 inline pump

Just the Bosch 044 pumps are pretty common. If I couldn't find one where I was, I could get one over night. Yes I maybe able to do the same for a LR unit but it'd cost me and arm and a leg.


There's a gapping big hole behind the rear left wheel in the D2 which gives plenty of options for mounting. I don't know how hot they get.


The only experience I have had with replacing fuel pumps has been with Petrol Carby motors and I have just installed facet pumps inline


Happy Days

getting the part number for the pump itself isnt usually the problem its when one of the fittings youve used lets go that you have an issue.

petrol carbys have a supply pressure of 5-7 psi, the pump for the td5 is upto 75 psi, and has a significantly higher flow rate to boot. Everythings got to be done just right because a rub point or bit that gets allowed to flex and vibrate hell even the wrong type of bend/fitting for the line you use will develop a leak.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

getting the part number for the pump itself isnt usually the problem its when one of the fittings youve used lets go that you have an issue.

petrol carbys have a supply pressure of 5-7 psi, the pump for the td5 is upto 75 psi, and has a significantly higher flow rate to boot. Everythings got to be done just right because a rub point or bit that gets allowed to flex and vibrate hell even the wrong type of bend/fitting for the line you use will develop a leak.

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I don't see how it's different to any other modification. If it's not done right, it'll be more trouble than it's worth.

Yes I am fully aware of the pressure differences and why I noted the Bosch 044 for the TD5 and not a facet. I don't know the flow rate of the simple facet but maybe it would be a cheap option to feed the low pressure side.

I just feel the TD5 fuel pump is over complicated, expensive and not readily available. An inline Bosch 044 or similar is cheap, simple and readily available.

I know there is a tread around here about being able to purchase just the pump itself. I think someone found a BMW unit was identical. I have considered buying one to throw into my spares box but then comes the problem of fitting. It's one thing to remove a D2 fuel pump at home when the back of the vehicle is empty, you can properly wash the top of the tank down with running water and you have a decent size clean drip tray to disassemble the pump assembly but doing that on the side of the road and trying to prevent dirt ingress is another thing.

Happy Days

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Originally Posted by sierrafery

With a sole in-tank HP pump you'll have to put a filter between the pump and the fuel rail which is not the best solution IMO,

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The OEM filter is between the pump and fuel rail already, I dont see this a s problem.


Why make the system as complicated as it already is, the whole point of venturing AWay from the OEM pump setup is to keep it simple. I dont see it any more complex than a High Performance petrol engine, you can get a single IN Tank pump to supply almost enough fuel for 1000HP these days, why do U need a LP circuit at all?

When I had my Supra powered cressida, it ran a single Walbro 255 In tank pump, with standard toyota filter after it, ill bet my left boot it consumed more fuel than a dirty old td5 :D and rail pressure was in the relm of 65psi.

Im not sure if isaid it in previous post or not, but the wifes camry ran the same intank pump for well in excess of 200,000 kays, and all I did was change filters anually. ****, my daily drive has over 300,000 kays on it, and still runs the original factory pump, no gurgling, no leaking from the fuel pres reg, no problems :p

If a standrd japanese fuel system can be reliable for twice as long as the disco fuel system, i think there is merit in trying to improve and SIMPLIFY the Landrover offering.

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Originally Posted by Phat-Customs

The OEM filter is between the pump and fuel rail already, I dont see this a s problem.
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Depends on how you watch it cos the filter is only on the LP side and return, the HP is directly from pump to the head, no ''obstacle'' on it

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Originally Posted by Phat-Customs

The OEM filter is between the pump and fuel rail already, I dont see this a s problem.


Why make the system as complicated as it already is, the whole point of venturing AWay from the OEM pump setup is to keep it simple. I dont see it any more complex than a High Performance petrol engine, you can get a single IN Tank pump to supply almost enough fuel for 1000HP these days, why do U need a LP circuit at all?

When I had my Supra powered cressida, it ran a single Walbro 255 In tank pump, with standard toyota filter after it, ill bet my left boot it consumed more fuel than a dirty old td5 :D and rail pressure was in the relm of 65psi.

Im not sure if isaid it in previous post or not, but the wifes camry ran the same intank pump for well in excess of 200,000 kays, and all I did was change filters anually. ****, my daily drive has over 300,000 kays on it, and still runs the original factory pump, no gurgling, no leaking from the fuel pres reg, no problems :p

If a standrd japanese fuel system can be reliable for twice as long as the disco fuel system, i think there is merit in trying to improve and SIMPLIFY the Landrover offering.

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just a few things wrong there with your comparison of petrol to diesel worlds, in the case of your supra

1. its only petrol, it pumps a lot easier than diesel
2. its only a petrol, the fuel injection pressure you refer to as "high" over here in the diesel world we refer to "low" and "insignificant" to the point where in some engine configurations a total variance of double the stated rail pressure in your supra is inside a 1% tolerance and in some other configurations its around 1/4 of 1% and is so negligible it would be ignored as "probably gauge error or signal noise"
3. its only a petrol, what you refer to as "injector clearance tolerances" in the diesel world amounts to "the empty supermarket car park you practice circle work in, in haulpacks"
4. in some cases the pressure realm in which a petrol engines injectors operate in is the same realm in which some diesel engines look at and go "hmm, the pressure reading on the inlet manifold seems a bit low" and thats in standard trim.
5. I know its not directly related to the fuel system (other than the injectors have to overcome the pressure) but in the petrol world, whats generally considered to be "high" compression over in diesel world is sometimes looked at as "and you got it to start and run like that?"
6. in a petrol engine your fuel injection timing is not "critical" missing the injection timing by a couple of degrees wont usually result in pistons trying to turn inside out, non running of the engine or the injector cutting a hole through your pistons combustion chamber.
7. in a petrol engine your fuel doesnt lubricate your injectors, or other parts of the fuel system to the same extent as diesel engines rely upon their fuel to.
8. petrol fuel systems dont generally rely on the fuel to cool the injectors to the same extent as diesels do, primarily because your injectors don't typically protrude into the combustion chamber.
9. Betting that a petrol engine burnt more fuel is not helping your argument, the basic premise and attraction of diesel engines is that they are inherently more fuel effecient in terms of power produced per liter of fuel consumed. Partly this comes from the fuels density and energy density, which ties back to point 1.

you are aware that there are TD5's out there that have gone past 200,000Km without having to change the pump? I've changed more fuel pumps in v8D1's than I have TD5s.

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Originally Posted by joel0407

It's one thing to remove a D2 fuel pump at home when the back of the vehicle is empty, you can properly wash the top of the tank down with running water and you have a decent size clean drip tray to disassemble the pump assembly but doing that on the side of the road and trying to prevent dirt ingress is another thing.

Happy Days

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not that big a deal, IVe pulled the entire tank assembly out of a disco for repair including pulling the pump out of a D2 that was kitted for touring in a campsite before today without issue.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/1042281-post2.html

thats from baz's trip report.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

just a few things wrong there with your comparison of petrol to diesel worlds, in the case of your supra

1. its only petrol, it pumps a lot easier than diesel
2. its only a petrol, the fuel injection pressure you refer to as "high" over here in the diesel world we refer to "low" and "insignificant" to the point where in some engine configurations a total variance of double the stated rail pressure in your supra is inside a 1% tolerance and in some other configurations its around 1/4 of 1% and is so negligible it would be ignored as "probably gauge error or signal noise"
3. its only a petrol, what you refer to as "injector clearance tolerances" in the diesel world amounts to "the empty supermarket car park you practice circle work in, in haulpacks"
4. in some cases the pressure realm in which a petrol engines injectors operate in is the same realm in which some diesel engines look at and go "hmm, the pressure reading on the inlet manifold seems a bit low" and thats in standard trim.
5. I know its not directly related to the fuel system (other than the injectors have to overcome the pressure) but in the petrol world, whats generally considered to be "high" compression over in diesel world is sometimes looked at as "and you got it to start and run like that?"
6. in a petrol engine your fuel injection timing is not "critical" missing the injection timing by a couple of degrees wont usually result in pistons trying to turn inside out, non running of the engine or the injector cutting a hole through your pistons combustion chamber.
7. in a petrol engine your fuel doesnt lubricate your injectors, or other parts of the fuel system to the same extent as diesel engines rely upon their fuel to.
8. petrol fuel systems dont generally rely on the fuel to cool the injectors to the same extent as diesels do, primarily because your injectors don't typically protrude into the combustion chamber.
9. Betting that a petrol engine burnt more fuel is not helping your argument, the basic premise and attraction of diesel engines is that they are inherently more fuel effecient in terms of power produced per liter of fuel consumed. Partly this comes from the fuels density and energy density, which ties back to point 1.

you are aware that there are TD5's out there that have gone past 200,000Km without having to change the pump? I've changed more fuel pumps in v8D1's than I have TD5s.

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I don't know how half this stuff is relevant to a TD5? The pump we are talking about is basically nothing more than a lift pump. The high pressure injection is done at the injector in the TD5. The pressure is regulated by the fuel pressure regulator. Providing the pump is providing enough flow to open the fuel pressure regulator then little more is needed. Most of what you refer to is relevant to a Common Rail Diesel.

Pressure regulator regulates "pressure" ... Not flow. If the TD5 FPR is designed to work at 60 psi, then the pressure reg' can't do its job unless it's inlet pressure exceeds 60psi ... It's designed to "maintain" a 60psi downstream pressure to feed the fuel gallery, regardless of the vary flow rate.

Interesting discussion btw. Think I'll just stick with the std pump and be happy :p

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Originally Posted by joel0407

I don't know how half this stuff is relevant to a TD5? The pump we are talking about is basically nothing more than a lift pump. The high pressure injection is done at the injector in the TD5. The pressure is regulated by the fuel pressure regulator. Providing the pump is providing enough flow to open the fuel pressure regulator then little more is needed. Most of what you refer to is relevant to a Common Rail Diesel.

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easy enough additional comments in Green

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

just a few things wrong there with your comparison of petrol to diesel worlds, in the case of your supra

1. its only petrol, it pumps a lot easier than diesel Obvious
2. its only a petrol, the fuel injection pressure you refer to as "high" over here in the diesel world we refer to "low" and "insignificant" to the point where in some engine configurations a total variance of double the stated rail pressure in your supra is inside a 1% tolerance and in some other configurations its around 1/4 of 1% and is so negligible it would be ignored as "probably gauge error or signal noise" The td5 is unit injected, the td5 eu3 series unit injectors inject at upto ~25000psi
3. its only a petrol, what you refer to as "injector clearance tolerances" in the diesel world amounts to "the empty supermarket car park you practice circle work in, in haulpacks" these tolerances are needed in all diesel engine injection systems, at the very minimum in just the injector to prevent the injectors from leaking or throwing bad patterns
4. in some cases the pressure realm in which a petrol engines injectors operate in is the same realm in which some diesel engines look at and go "hmm, the pressure reading on the inlet manifold seems a bit low" and thats in standard trim.ok, this one was a little unfair, I pulled the fuel pressure for the petrol engine from very early throttle body systems where the fuel injection pressure was less than 15psi the stock turbo on the td5 pushes 15-17psi
5. I know its not directly related to the fuel system (other than the injectors have to overcome the pressure) but in the petrol world, whats generally considered to be "high" compression over in diesel world is sometimes looked at as "and you got it to start and run like that?" 8-10:1 generally for petrols, 16-20:1 generally for diesels
6. in a petrol engine your fuel injection timing is not "critical" missing the injection timing by a couple of degrees wont usually result in pistons trying to turn inside out, non running of the engine or the injector cutting a hole through your pistons combustion chamber. injecting too early in all diesel engines causes diesel knock, do that enough and you'll do all sorts of nasty damage, 25000 psi is in the relm of the pressure used in some low end water jet cutters
7. in a petrol engine your fuel doesnt lubricate your injectors, or other parts of the fuel system to the same extent as diesel engines rely upon their fuel to. this applies to all diesel engines
8. petrol fuel systems dont generally rely on the fuel to cool the injectors to the same extent as diesels do, primarily because your injectors don't typically protrude into the combustion chamber. this applies to all diesel engines
9. Betting that a petrol engine burnt more fuel is not helping your argument, the basic premise and attraction of diesel engines is that they are inherently more fuel effecient in terms of power produced per liter of fuel consumed. Partly this comes from the fuels density and energy density, which ties back to point 1. excluding cases where you compare a 2015 petrol to a 1940 diesel this generally applies to all diesel/petrol engine comparisons of the same capacity

you are aware that there are TD5's out there that have gone past 200,000Km without having to change the pump? I've changed more fuel pumps in v8D1's than I have TD5s.

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the problem with the idea of "just enough flow to open the regulator" in the opening instance is the loss of fuel flow which leads to higher fuel temps which leads to degredation of the lubricity of the fuel which leads to injector wear.

Hope that helps clear it up some for you.