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Thread: TD5 Delayed Acceleration at low engine speeds

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Melbourne
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    TD5 Delayed Acceleration at low engine speeds

    Hi,

    I have an annoying problem with my TD5 Auto which I thought I would post to see if anyone else has had the same problem and fixed it. Overall, vehicle performs really well, pulls like a train at 100kph, but...

    Symptoms:
    1) After driving the car and parking for say 15mins on the driveway, I start and attempt to move the car into my garage. There is virtually no response from the engine if I give it 100 % pedal - engine speed reaches about 1100rpm. My driveway has a low to medium uphill slope.

    2) Pulling away at a roundabout or junction, there is about a 2 second delay before anything happens, then all hell breaks lose when rpm gets above 2000. This delay is reduced if I turn off the A/C system.

    3) The lag is more than classical turbo lag, it appears to be some form of fuel reduction.

    Checks.
    1) I serviced the engine. Air filter, fuel filter, oil filter. Checked intake hoses, PCV and cleaned intercooler. Replaced intercooler as it had a slight leak on the intake.

    2) I cleaned the MAP sensor and the MAF sensor. Checked wastegate operation and boost pressure.

    3) I pinned out all the sensors to the ECU, did the oil check on the red ECU plug and found that everything seemed to be working. Fuel temp, air temp, air pressure, coolant temp., pedal potentiometers etc.

    4) Started vehicle and looked at MAF voltage. Idle was 1.94V and no load 2250rpm was 2.54V. Also checked the resistance across pins 2 and 3 of the MAF and got 16.75 kOhms.

    5) Disconnected the EGR system by blanking the vacuum pipe and ensuring the valve was closed.

    I would have thought that there should be more than enough torque to overcome the AC compressor so there must be some other badness at work. The only thing I can think of is that the MAF readings are too low but I have already tested with it completely disconnected and there was no difference. Maybe a replacement MAF will sort it out ? Well I bought a cheap replacement one off eBay and that made no difference either...

    Unfortunately I don't have access to a Nanocom and I don't really want to buy another MAF (I'll get the Siemens part next time) if I'm not sure if it will fix my problem. Does this sound like a familiar problem to anyone ? Anyone know where I can buy a Nanocom or borrow one ? Maybe there is a stored fault code which is resulting in some defaults being used. Was thinking about putting a 2.5V on pin 2 of the MAF sensor just to make sure that the sensed airflow was high enough. Ideas ?

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Hastings, East Sussex, UK
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    Hi

    Have you check the turbo waste gate is free.
    take the 10 mm bolt out of the back of the heat shield
    take the "E" shape clip off the waste gate actuator rod

    the waste gate lever should move freely and when push back or forward and let go - it should fall back to the straight down position

    spray with lubricating oil and work it back and forward to free it off

    Put it back together and try it

    If you buy a new MAF ONLY buy a original equipment one as the cheap ones are rubbish

    Mark from Terrain Vehicles

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gladstone
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    I've got a nanocom evo you're welcome to use if you are prepared to travel down to geelong.

    It hasn't gone into "limp home" mode has it?? Car will take off in 3rd gear in this instance and feel extremely sluggish until it gets moving (auto obviously).
    Indicated by flashing S and M lights on dash.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    Buderim, Sunshine Coast QLD
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    I think it might just bethe turbo lag.

    I too have an uphill driveway and unless the turbo is on song it is pretty unresponsive. I can floor it for 1-2 secs with the nose of the Disco just outside the garage and not come close to punching it through the back wall.

    Roundabouts or intersections require a launching technique. I keep my foot on the brake and just before you think there is a break in the traffic start to wind up the turbo by just lifting the revs slightly to say 1200 - 1500 then when the break comes plant it! But within 10 feet you need to lift off or you will rear end someone.

    Makes driving fun....

    By the way mine is bog standard so a chipped TD5 maybe a little different.

    Regards Gordo

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
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    Central West NSW
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    Mine started doing that before the fuel pump gave up.
    Cheers
    Slunnie


    ~ Discovery II Td5 ~ Discovery 3dr V8 ~ Series IIa 6cyl ute ~ Series II V8 ute ~

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Patagonia
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    Quote Originally Posted by crt560 View Post
    Started vehicle and looked at MAF voltage. Idle was 1.94V and no load 2250rpm was 2.54V. Also checked the resistance across pins 2 and 3 of the MAF and got 16.75 kOhms.
    Not saying it is the MAF but when it comes to it, the only valid method to determine whether a MAF sensor is stuffed or not is to check live readings (at idle and under load). However, in absence of diagnostics equipment I found that resistivity values can be used to give a good indication of MAF condition, although there has been some very valid criticism around this methodology, at any rate here it goes for your reference:

    Resistivity values taken from MAF sensors
    New OEM MAF:
    Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
    Pins 1-3 = ~34 Mohm
    Pins 2-3 = ~34 Mohm

    Used dodgy MAFs (due being replaced):
    Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
    Pins 1-3 = 12.28 Mohm
    Pins 2-3 = 12.33 Mohm

    Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
    Pins 1-3 = 19.38 Mohm
    Pins 2-3 = 19.34 Mohm

    Known dead MAF:
    Pins 1-2 = 16.8 kohm
    Pins 1-3 = 6.23 Mohm
    Pins 2-3 = 6.25 Mohm

    From the above it could be concluded that all MAFs, either good or bad, have the same conductivity between pins 1-2 & conductivity between pins 1-3 and 2-3 appears to decrease as the MAF deteriorates.

    HTH

    Rgds
    Matt

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Brisvegas
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    Our td5 ranga.... Auto..... Does pretty much the same thing .... U might just find it is one of those really SPECIAL and unique Landrover Quirks..... Ahhhhh they are such fun vehicles to own loads of shaking head and scratching head every other day!!!!! Wouldn't be without it..... Certainly makes u develop patience and sense of humor ..... Well that's what we reckon in our house.
    Our daily motto when **** goes awry is " who the F..k knows it's a Landrover" :-))

    We say yours is as normal as ours is!!! Like Gaudough pointed out makes for exciting driving experience!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    Brunswick, Victoria
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    Just to add to Matt's fantastic information, there are a few people reporting around 20MΩ resistances from straight out of the box Siemens MAFs, so don't assume you have a dead one simply because it reads around that figure.

    The other point is careful cleaning with a MAF cleaner spray makes a suprising difference to the resistance figures, as these readings I've just taken illustrate.

    MAF before cleaning:
    1-2 16.75 kΩ
    1-3 2.405MΩ
    2-3 14.35MΩ

    MAF after cleaning
    1-2 16.73kΩ
    1-3 15.41MΩ
    2-3 15.50MΩ

    After trashing one MAF, I'm a bit cautious in how I clean them now.

    It is essential that the ignition is left off for sufficiently long to allow the heated elements to cool to ambient temperature - one element is heated to around 300°C when the ignition is on. I also spray with the connector to the top to avoid depositing grime into the electronics.

    cheers
    Paul

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2003
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    gees,, mine must be stuffed then,,

    with mutli set on 20K range

    pins 1-2, a reading of 26
    pins 1-3, 1.7(still on 20K)
    pins 2-3, no reading, ie, meter stayed at 1

    but then I could get no reading from pins 1-3,,
    all these were done with the lead unclipped.

    cant be right,, car wouldnt run at all,,
    "How long since you've visited The Good Oil?"

    '93 V8 Rossi
    '97 to '07. sold.
    '01 V8 D2
    '06 to 10. written off.
    '03 4.6 V8 HSE D2a with Tornado ECM
    '10 to '21
    '16.5 RRS SDV8
    '21 to Infinity and Beyond!


    1988 Isuzu Bus. V10 15L NA Diesel
    Home is where you park it..

    [IMG][/IMG]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by crt560 View Post
    Hi,

    I have an annoying problem with my TD5 Auto which I thought I would post to see if anyone else has had the same problem and fixed it. Overall, vehicle performs really well, pulls like a train at 100kph, but...

    Symptoms:
    1) After driving the car and parking for say 15mins on the driveway, I start and attempt to move the car into my garage. There is virtually no response from the engine if I give it 100 % pedal - engine speed reaches about 1100rpm. My driveway has a low to medium uphill slope.

    2) Pulling away at a roundabout or junction, there is about a 2 second delay before anything happens, then all hell breaks lose when rpm gets above 2000. This delay is reduced if I turn off the A/C system.

    3) The lag is more than classical turbo lag, it appears to be some form of fuel reduction.

    Checks.
    1) I serviced the engine. Air filter, fuel filter, oil filter. Checked intake hoses, PCV and cleaned intercooler. Replaced intercooler as it had a slight leak on the intake.

    2) I cleaned the MAP sensor and the MAF sensor. Checked wastegate operation and boost pressure.

    3) I pinned out all the sensors to the ECU, did the oil check on the red ECU plug and found that everything seemed to be working. Fuel temp, air temp, air pressure, coolant temp., pedal potentiometers etc.

    4) Started vehicle and looked at MAF voltage. Idle was 1.94V and no load 2250rpm was 2.54V. Also checked the resistance across pins 2 and 3 of the MAF and got 16.75 kOhms.

    5) Disconnected the EGR system by blanking the vacuum pipe and ensuring the valve was closed.

    I would have thought that there should be more than enough torque to overcome the AC compressor so there must be some other badness at work. The only thing I can think of is that the MAF readings are too low but I have already tested with it completely disconnected and there was no difference. Maybe a replacement MAF will sort it out ? Well I bought a cheap replacement one off eBay and that made no difference either...

    Unfortunately I don't have access to a Nanocom and I don't really want to buy another MAF (I'll get the Siemens part next time) if I'm not sure if it will fix my problem. Does this sound like a familiar problem to anyone ? Anyone know where I can buy a Nanocom or borrow one ? Maybe there is a stored fault code which is resulting in some defaults being used. Was thinking about putting a 2.5V on pin 2 of the MAF sensor just to make sure that the sensed airflow was high enough. Ideas ?

    Thanks.
    Hi, My Discovery 2 has the same problem, today while towing the boat, pedal to floor and slowly moving until away we go, lift off pedal to idle no response on accelator, Nrma road service checked relay for fuel pump Current draw 11amps, said way too high, susspects fuel pump not working . Has now been towed to service department.

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