Is my Rangie more environmentally proper than a Prius?

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Originally Posted by jakeslouw

IMHO, an EV is the stupidest idea ever, based on current (no pun intended) generating methods for the public grid.

So I have an EV, battery is flat, I plug it into the public power supply and some time later it's charged.

Magic, you say! Except WHERE does the electricity come from?

Most power stations are FOSSIL FUEL consumers! Either coal or oil!

So what are the options? NONE of the "free" energy sources (wind, solar, water) are being effectively used due to "cost". Show me the vast tracts of useless desert covered with solar panels? IT ISN'T HAPPENING!
Show me those vast wind turbine farms or tidal generator farms? Ditto.

So our powers-that-be keep on pushing for fossil fuel or nuclear power stations. Because SOMEBODY is making sure certain technologies stay expensive. Where is the economy of scale?

So the greenie-beanies that think they're doing a good thing buying a new EV (with all the negative impacts so far mentioned including the raping of the earth for rare minerals and metals) are actually contributing to a FASTER deterioration in our global environment. I say stick with your 30-year-old Defender, because replacing it is a HUGELY negative impact.

Rant over.

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not in the application I provided... it was intended to give you the ability to do a short run without using the ICE and that the ICE would be the primary charging system your external charge could come from a water wheel, a WVO burning generator, solar, windfarm, thermovent or off peak grid.

say you do the long drive home and the battery is fully topped up you jump in, turn the K backwards to ignition option B which is primary electric for a 2 k run to the shops. when you go to leave for work the next day you
run it in ignition option A, hybrid and as you're driving along the system charges as and where it can (regen braking/idling)

The Prius may not be the answer to the world's energy problems but as the first mass produced electric drive passenger car it got a generation of tech people used to the idea. Newer hybrids and EV's will build on this groundwork. A mate of mine bought one for his wife and was quite impressed with its economy in local hills and city driving. They kept it for 5 years, no real problems. Sadly I didn't get to gas convert it, that would have been fun.:eek::D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakeslouw

IMHO, an EV is the stupidest idea ever, based on current (no pun intended) generating methods for the public grid.

So I have an EV, battery is flat, I plug it into the public power supply and some time later it's charged.

Magic, you say! Except WHERE does the electricity come from?

Most power stations are FOSSIL FUEL consumers! Either coal or oil!

So what are the options? NONE of the "free" energy sources (wind, solar, water) are being effectively used due to "cost". Show me the vast tracts of useless desert covered with solar panels? IT ISN'T HAPPENING!
Show me those vast wind turbine farms or tidal generator farms? Ditto.

So our powers-that-be keep on pushing for fossil fuel or nuclear power stations. Because SOMEBODY is making sure certain technologies stay expensive. Where is the economy of scale?

So the greenie-beanies that think they're doing a good thing buying a new EV (with all the negative impacts so far mentioned including the raping of the earth for rare minerals and metals) are actually contributing to a FASTER deterioration in our global environment. I say stick with your 30-year-old Defender, because replacing it is a HUGELY negative impact.

Rant over.

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NOT a rant, IMO, you are quite right. I can't figure out why anyone would be pleased or excited to utilise a technology that moves the emissions from the zorst pipe to the smoke stack. Who are they kidding?

The only one that floats my boat is hydrogen, where the emissions are, I believe, oxygen and water. I'm told that it is no good 'cos it needs an infrastructure, much like petrol stations, but for hydrogen, and that's too hard.

Personally I think that there are better solutions than the Prius. The technology exists to make existing engines increasingly fuel efficient without digging semi toxic metals out of the ground to make batteries out of. The most recent releases of the Ford "ECOnetic" and VW "Bluemotion" engines are testament to that, with <4l/100km consumption and no vast battery arrays making the vehicle weigh so much more.

I own a Golf Bluemotion 1.6l turbo diesel, and it weighs 1200kg or so. The Prius weighs 1420kg, so ~200kg of batteries and electric motors to lug around compared with a tweaked and very tecchie turbo diesel. Not to mention that

• the official fuel consumption of the Golf is better than the Prius
• the tiny, tiny boot on the Prius
• the Golf still takes off like a scalded cat with heavy use of the pedal on the right (77kw versus 73kw for the petrol Prius :o)
• The Golf's a darn sight cheaper too ($35 - $45k for a battery powered toy??)

I am resurrecting my 27yo EX V8 110 with an engine transplant, real A/C, upgraded later brakes etc etc, as it was destined to rot away in a paddock I am convinced (even though it is a dirty 4BD1t) I am helping rather than hindering by recycling.

Many of my customers have done similar, most vehicles can be updated and re cycled, with good economy too if LPG or turbo diesel converted.

A recycyled P38a even with some large $$$ spent on it is still cheaper and better for the cradle to grave environment impact than disposing of it and buying another, 80K to 100K+ vehicle.

If anyone is truly serious about helping the environment, they wouldn't own a vehicle at all.

JC

Your right,the Greens want us to live within riding distance from work so we don't need cars,who wants to live like that?.I work to live,not live to work. Pat

the electric motors in these can have a operational voltage of between 120 and 400VDC. in a crash situation that is an awfully high amount of potential energy = spark not to mention if it shorts out electrocution.

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Originally Posted by Jitterbug

I wonder how much of the economy of a prius can be attributed to low drag coefficient of the aerodynamic body and the low rolling resistace of the skinny tyres?

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Most of it. But we won't know exactly how much until they put a corolla transaxle in and put it on a track followed by a corolla.

If you put a VW TDi in it, you'd have ludicrous fuel economy. But that won't go down as well at the country club.

The biggest problem (as already mentioned) is the more complex a device gets, the shorter it's lifespan becomes. Look at cellphones that get turfed every 2 years max compared to house phones that worked for 30 years.

For the guys complaining about moving from one fossil fuel (oil) to another (coal) - perhaps you could consider a timeline longer a few years.

Peak oil is real and will happen, perhaps in our lifetimes. Oil will become more expensive than gold (that's an exaggeration, of course). We could keep digging coal out of the Hunter for the next 1000 years (another exaggeration). Nuke will happen, sooner the better. Wind is becoming viable, as is tidal power (I know they don't do baseload).

We need to have technologies ready to deal with the next oil shock/peak oil. For my money, hybrids and EVs are the wave of the future. By the time my son is ready to take the keys of my IIA it will be electric I reckon, maybe hybrid, perhaps even hydrogen powered!

And anyway, no one is forcing you to buy a Prius or EV. The idea of keeping your current car is a good one - keeping it in good knick and using alternative transport where suits are good ways to prolong the vehicle's life, protect the environment and save some cash. All good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jakeslouw

IMHO, an EV is the stupidest idea ever, based on current (no pun intended) generating methods for the public grid.

So I have an EV, battery is flat, I plug it into the public power supply and some time later it's charged.

Magic, you say! Except WHERE does the electricity come from?

Most power stations are FOSSIL FUEL consumers! Either coal or oil!

So what are the options? NONE of the "free" energy sources (wind, solar, water) are being effectively used due to "cost". Show me the vast tracts of useless desert covered with solar panels? IT ISN'T HAPPENING!
Show me those vast wind turbine farms or tidal generator farms? Ditto.

So our powers-that-be keep on pushing for fossil fuel or nuclear power stations. Because SOMEBODY is making sure certain technologies stay expensive. Where is the economy of scale?

So the greenie-beanies that think they're doing a good thing buying a new EV (with all the negative impacts so far mentioned including the raping of the earth for rare minerals and metals) are actually contributing to a FASTER deterioration in our global environment. I say stick with your 30-year-old Defender, because replacing it is a HUGELY negative impact.

Rant over.

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Good news mate - the carbon price is going to be the first step in fixing most of these issues! You must be pleased.

Care to expand on how EVs are 'contributing to a FASTER deterioration in our global environment'?