Head bolts letting go after 150 kms?

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Originally Posted by Petetheprinta

I hope this is not too far off subject. I am in the process of replacing my timing belt (co-incidentally) supplied by Roverlord. I notice that the torque on the crankshaft Pulley nut is xnm +90 degree extra turn, does this mean it is a TTY bolt and as such I should be using a new one, as presumedly, it has already been stretched by having been used once??.
Thanks
Pete.

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no, that bolt is tensioned as a torque to yeild bolt, the OEM torque figure is in the vicinity of 400nm, a more reliable torquing is gained by setting it to a lower toque setting then adding an angle. this is essentially the underlying principle that started off torque to yeild bolts.

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Originally Posted by Roverlord off road spares

I just got a message again for him.I have reported him to eBay.
But it seems you have to take these mechanic hands and show them how to fit things or give explanations on how to fit each and every part.
(I have removed the reference to certain body parts)
And he actually bought them off ebay.
I am needing a stiff drink I think,
It's come from wanting his money back or replacement bolts to now his whole engine is destroyed.
Anyone want to buy a parts business?

Dear roverlordoffroadspares,

No ********, you could have said they were a torque to yield bolt or you could have said that torque to yield bolts are the only type you stock. but no.... because your a greedy **** you said nothing.. Oh that's right blame the customer. I asked for a product you thought you could provide, but you couldn't, which has now cost me a $5000 engine. Thank's ****! I will buy lots off you in order to leave negative feedback, not because I'am upset that you ****** up it's because ebay is supposed to be a site that you can trust and expect what you pay for. You should not be allowed to trade on here!

Thankyou!

- *******

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Hey mate, don't worry the facts are that he claims the bolts 'failed' when tightened using normal early spec tension specs. These are WAY less than the TTY tensions in the real world, IE the TTY bolts are actually stronger than the early bolts. What a turkey. He IS NOT A MECHANIC.

Don't sweat it mate, there are people like this all over the planet, unwilling to accept responsibility for their own actions.

Oh, and BTW there is NO NEED to retension head bolts on a Rover V8, using shim OR composite gaskets. In doing so he has introduced a leak because a retension requires loosening the head bolts FIRST. Again, what a turkey.

Taken from ACL website,

Re-torque Procedure
After a cylinder head gasket has been installed and engine reassembled.
Start engine, carry out all necessary tuning and engine checks (including test drive of vehicle).
Allow the engine to cool down (preferably overnight).
Remove the valve cover.
Back off one cylinder head bolt at a time, in the same sequence as assembly, applying oil under the cylinder head bolt and retorquing the cylinder head bolts to the manufacturer's specifications.
Continue this process until all head bolts have been retensioned.

Doing THIS to a Rover V8 with Elring composite gaskets will result in leaks, 100% !!!!!

You can copy and send him this post if you like Mario. And I'll PM you my contact number if you like so I can explain it to him :(


JC

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

hang on..

if you only tighten a torque to yeild bolt to 90 ftlb it holds just as well as a normal bolt... its not till you start adding the extra angles that you run into problems which is normally that the non torque to yield bolt will stretch in the threads and snap.

Feel free to quote me on that and use as many numpty inducement swear words at him as you like.

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I will get over it, but it disturbs me I have an unsatisfied customer and they will now bag me no end, Heather and I slowly built this business up from scratch and we try to go beyond call of duty and have a good rapport.
Maybe eventually you end up with some one that pulls your strings the wrong way. That's sales. I got out of over the counter retail so I didn't have to deal with people face to face as I got burnt out. Online mail order seems to be the way to go, sell the product ,get it to them fast, followed up and all was rosey.
I am getting cranky in my older age. Today was just the cup that fell over ans spilled.
Better look forward to tomorrow it's another day.

Sorry to bore you guys with my Rant
Thanks for your input, it's appreciated.;)

Just to add a bit of fuel to the fire.....:twisted:

After my 3.9 rebuild, I used the torque up, then 2 lots of 90 degree approach on the Britpart head bolts that I'd bought. And 1500km later my D1 was sitting in a puddle of coolant, with a stream if the green stuff pouring out between cylinders 1&3. When I pulled the heads, they were loose on both sides, on the left hand head the bolts were barely finger tight.

I'm not a mechanic, but I can read and follow instructions meticulously. Funnily enough, the replacement bolts I bought from MRAutomotive are still holding the head down 7500km later without a single drip, having used the same tools and methodology.

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Originally Posted by sheerluck

Just to add a bit of fuel to the fire.....:twisted:

After my 3.9 rebuild, I used the torque up, then 2 lots of 90 degree approach on the Britpart head bolts that I'd bought. And 1500km later my D1 was sitting in a puddle of coolant, with a stream if the green stuff pouring out between cylinders 1&3. When I pulled the heads, they were loose on both sides, on the left hand head the bolts were barely finger tight.

I'm not a mechanic, but I can read and follow instructions meticulously. Funnily enough, the replacement bolts I bought from MRAutomotive are still holding the head down 7500km later without a single drip, having used the same tools and methodology.

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Certainly Dave headbolts, like valve springs, need to be a very high quality item. There ARE some instances where the part MAY be to blame, BUT ranting at the seller about it does no one any good, especially as they have supplied them from a supplier themselves. Hence my suggestion that IF the bolts are suspect they need to be tested in laboratory conditions to determine if they DO meet the specified yield strength, then and ONLY then can the bolts be held to blame if they fail testing. To have the purchaser flip out is not conducive to finding out what caused the problem and rectifying it to everyones satisfaction.

Many Years ago I had a problem with a couple of Tdi head gaskets purchased through ACL. They lasted about 500km and blew between cylinders spectacularly. They acknowledged the issue, refunded/ paid out the claims and were VERY reasonable about it. I was quite impressed actually. The fact is if you go at them hammer and tongs and all abusive like this pond dweller did to Mario, then it is very hard to reach any sort of helpful resolution IMO.

JC

It would be great for us all to know who he is so those not able to do their own work don't end up with him on the spanners.

:D

The fact this bloke has resorted to abuse is the give away.

I've not dealt with you guys, only because I'm supporting the suppliers that have continued to look after me and I feel like I owe them the business - so nothing personal!

I have worked in retail and wholesale, and I know what it's like encounter someone who has axe to grind when they're the one at fault. It stinks. Sometimes the customer is 100% wrong. Sadly any attempt to placate them is lost and just costs you more. The fact this bloke has resorted to abuse is the give away.

Agree wholeheartedly with JC here. There are ways to go about resolving these sorts of problems. And then there's this guys approach.

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Originally Posted by justinc

Certainly Dave headbolts, like valve springs, need to be a very high quality item.

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I know that now :(

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Originally Posted by justinc

There ARE some instances where the part MAY be to blame, BUT ranting at the seller about it does no one any good, especially as they have supplied them from a supplier themselves. Hence my suggestion that IF the bolts are suspect they need to be tested in laboratory conditions to determine if they DO meet the specified yield strength, then and ONLY then can the bolts be held to blame if they fail testing. To have the purchaser flip out is not conducive to finding out what caused the problem and rectifying it to everyones satisfaction.

Many Years ago I had a problem with a couple of Tdi head gaskets purchased through ACL. They lasted about 500km and blew between cylinders spectacularly. They acknowledged the issue, refunded/ paid out the claims and were VERY reasonable about it. I was quite impressed actually. The fact is if you go at them hammer and tongs and all abusive like this pond dweller did to Mario, then it is very hard to reach any sort of helpful resolution IMO.

JC

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I'm in total agreement JC. Having a go at the vendor like this goose has achieves nothing, and to me smacks of pure bull**** and bluster to attempt to deflect blame elsewhere.

In my case it was a lesson in product selection, (and one of the reasons why I've avoided Britpart items since) that was not a particularly expensive lesson, but one you only feel like learning once.:D

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Originally Posted by MacMan

Agree wholeheartedly with JC here. There are ways to go about resolving these sorts of problems. And then there's this guys approach.

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x2. When I've had trouble with parts suppliers - which has been too often - I just send polite emails that spell things out simply. If they can reply in the same manner then we can work things out. If they get personal and abusive, it's game over as there's no point in continuing to try and talk sense. Since this is the case here, you may as well as ignore the twit until he gets tired and goes away. I know it can ruin your day, but there are plenty out there and it's just the price of dealing with fellow humans, (if he can be classified as such).

To many variables in this one to blame head bolts, his workmanship for one
Dosnt seem to understand tourque to yield bolts and who retorques cyl heads these days?
did he get heads machined is the block square and flat, is the waterpump ok
was the radiator cleaned out and tested? plus many more
did the motor have a major overheat, have had this where a lot of money was spent getting every thing perfect and the headgasket let go within a short time put down to head-block moving when hot ended up supplying customer with second hand engine.
the only head job i have seen fail due to poor quality head bolts was a el falcon which lasted a week, then 3 bolts lost there heads. cutomer was on holiday and car came into workshop on a truck, new gasket and quality head bolts problem solved . customer paid our bill and went back to origonal workshop
sandy