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You should use quotes when you come up with this stuff, because I know that my argument at least was just a teeny little bit more involved than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
And that's what I'm referring to: I'm not concerned with how well a modern engine will go, because they are very dependable and efficient, it's about what you do when they won't go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm
It was quite simple from the evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by garrycolHow did you arrive at that conclusion :confused: - we were talking about silly old farts (are you one :)) who are resistant to change and always think the good ole days are better and everything old is more reliable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bush65
I certainly didn't even mention or comment on anything related to crook fuel etc.
Judo raised a valid concern about crook fuel being a liability for common rail diesel engines and asked a simple question as to whether they were more susceptible to contaminated fuel than mechanical injection systems. This is what I inferred from his post.
Then Pat303 followed that post with what any reasonable person would assume to be a reply to Judo's questions about contaminated fuel, which clearly implied there was no problem.
Your post was next, where you quoted the post from Pat303 and obviously supported what he claimed.
My post was a rhetorical question, because what you and Pat had posted could be taken as assurance that contaminated fuel was not a problem with CRD.
Now you are saying you and Pat were not posting about the question of contaminated fuel, or CRD, the topic of this thread, but talking about silly old farts ...
If you and Pat want to talk about silly old farts, FFS go and start a thread about that topic over in general chit chat :mad:
I think most cases are dirty fuel are self inflicted, ie dirty jerry cans etc, or fuelling from remote 44 gallon drums etc.
Outback servos with external above ground diesel storage are more likely to have condensation / water in them as the ambient temp cycles dramatically from day to night, but they do have sedimenters and water traps on the pumps.
I would think underground storage is a more stable temp and does not suffer the same issue.
if your heading into an outback town and the fuel was bad you might expect to see broken down cars for a couple of hundred km on the side of the road, you might put 2 and 2 together and wonder why, then you might be careful about buying fuel, but really you don't need to worry about it, you supposed to be on holiday, no stress is what its about.
in anycase if you suspect dirty fuel you should crack the drain on the bottom of your fuel filter, I had a fair bit of dirt & water come out of the filters on Toyotas (steel fuel tanks) but never had any come out of my Td5 filter (plastic tank) ,
some dirty fuel cases below (or perhaps not as it turns out)
Caravaners Forum • View topic - Dirt in diesel
Caravaners Forum • View topic - Dirty Fuel
John,aka Bush65 steady up tiger.What many people believe is modern vehicles are not suitable for outback travel which is wrong,look at Brians post above,funny I've never had constant issue's and I live and work in outback Oz,my L322 never had any trouble and they are loaded with electrics,remember also that modern engines stop because of the self protect systems built into them,like water sensors in the filter and airbox,in a way they are better as the motor stops before damage happens.It has been posted on many forums about complete fuel system changes on modern vehicles,thats warranty,if you could buy a modern mechanical injection vehicle like an 80's county you would still have all the fuel system replaced,thats the way it works.Like all new technology people who don't understand it or don't like it will critisise it,look at the RR in 1970 with coils,or when it came out with an auto,if we all thought like that we would still be driving series 3's. Pat
Pat, read my post again. I am mentioning MY experiences with electronic engine controls which have been so bad as to make me totally distrustful of them. These are failures, that is spelt F_A_I_L_U_R_E_S. Not stoppages from "self protect systems". A failure of a major electrical component that prevented the vehicle being started or driven. My first car with factory electronic ignition had three modules fail and replaced in under 200,000 k's. My next car was a further generation of electronic controls being ignition, emission controls, and anti-theft all rolled into one epoxy block. This one had five replacements in 300,000 k's. Then came the infamous "two Falcon's in one" ute, the first and the bloody last. This was towed to the dealership no less than seven times with an electrical component failure. There's that "failure" word again. It also failed between Diamantina Development Road and Coorabulka Station. Is that outback enough for you? Recovery that time meant being towed by a Land Cruiser to the homestead, getting a body truck out from Winton, loading using a grader and the station's ramp, and back to Winton. There is not a Ford dealer in Winton and the one in Longreach was primarily a Toyota dealer and no help. Diagnosis and repair was done via telephone between Central Motors (bikes, quads, pumps, gen-sets) and the selling dealer in Brisbane. I still get night sweats over the mobile 'phone bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by PAT303
As to getting diagnosis and repairs on new cars in country towns, take the example of a friend as a warning. He was driving from Brisbane to Mt. Isa on business when his very expensive upmarket Euro turbo-diesel sedan just stopped near Boulia. Classic electronic failure, no warning, no missing or stuttering, just stopped. Local RACQ guy no help, never seen anything like this. Got towed to Mt. Isa where there is a dealership. Mt. Isa claims to be the biggest inland city in Australia. The dealer was cheerful and did their best to help to no avail. Never seen one before, no tools, no parts, no trained staff. Shop foreman laid it on the line saying no-one out here would ever buy anything like this. Phone calls to selling dealer in Brisbane and Melbourne HQ resulted in Melbourne authorising transport to Brisbane. Some four weeks later and two visits from Melbourne based factory trained technicians it was got going again. What was wrong? No-one knows. They just kept replacing parts until it worked. Owner's comment "they had the engine assembly in and out like a honeymoon doodle." He now has a car with almost a year left on the lease that he will not trust to take on a country picnic, let alone a 1200 mile outback trip.
For a different slant on the argument I actually think city driving is a lot harder on a vehicles electronic / electrical and mechanical systems than outback driving. Sitting in stop start traffic with no airflow the worst, with constant accelerating , gear changing and braking. and short trips are worse where the components sometimes don't even get up to temp
even worse than mountain 4 wheeling
Once you get up to speed in the outback thats pretty much it for the rest of the day.
vehicles are much more prone to breakdown in the city, just as well thats where all the towing facilities are.
I disagree. It is the heat, dust, vibration (including the constant slap, slap, slap of bad roads) that contributed most to the failure of heavy trucks that were sold here without sufficient local engineering input. Vehicles just shake apart in country service here unless the operators stick to major highways and most of them are pretty ordinary. Also look at the numbers of British and Euro vehicles in particular that acquired appalling reputations in country service for simply shaking apart.
guys this is all very interesting but the fact is this thread is about CRD tech, not failures within or outside city limits.
The CRD engine is here to stay, period. They have their shortcomings,
like any other engines, but overall the performance and efficiency is incredible considering their cubic capacity.
I choose not to own one for my own reasons, some that have been mentioned many times above, but it doesn't stop me from appreciating the tech.
JC
Sorry for not reading all posts here, but I get a gist of what's being said. Last week I parked our VW passat in the carport, 2 days later it would not start. Turned over fine, but would not start. Had to have all injectors replaced, apparently there was a recall on these so it was free thank god, car has done 60,000k:(.
Still love driving it and the amarok:)
Well said JC.Quote:
Originally Posted by justinc
It is indisputable that a CRD engine can be more efficient (develop more power and torque per volume of diesel combusted) than an equivalent mechanical injection engine.
However is it also indisputable that CRD engines are much more susceptible to water or particulate contamination in the fuel.
e.g. see these 3 pdfs here from engine and filter manufacturers:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-...l-diesels.html
It is also indisputable that a CRD diesel has more components which could fail and stop the engine. Whether that makes a real world difference is another matter.
As you said, CRD engines are here to stay, until they are replaced by even better technology.