Blown head gasket 99 300 TDI

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Do you like to argue for the sake of arguing? I also believe that your wifes car was a Disco? maybe this makes a difference or maybe not. I don't know if the sender is the same between them, or if the different gauges respond differently?

Either way, the OEM LR Defender gauge out of that vintage (98) is known for having a huge range in the "normal" position, something like 88-98/100, before it even moves. Not often under good conditions and no problems that it is going to get over about 96c. So when something does go wrong, and when it does move, the range, along with delay usually means well past 100c before a person sees it. (most people wont notice 1-3mm past normal, unless focused on the gauge and expecting it to move)

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not sure if thats ment to be a personal attack or not, I'll let it slide and instead point out some vastly simple things for ya.

Personally given the normal operating range of the engine is something lik 82-105 deg C i dont give a stuff if a guage doesnt move while the engine is in the normal operating range.

Given that the engine isnt over heating until its past 120 degrees and that produces a very sudden movement of the gauge not a long slow creep its people who DONT scan their gauges properly that dont notice anything until AFTER the gauge is pegged out and the engine is loosing power.

Of course the REAL problem is that once you loose the coolant there is nothing for the sender to react to so even a VDO gauge wont help you there.

I'll let you go an look up all the pressure/vs temp charts and thermal conductivity of water, a proper coolant mix and steam and you can tell me what you would expect either of the gauges to do in the event of a catastrophic over heat/blown head gasket or coolant loss.

It wasnt a attack, but YES it was a question directed at you, hence me QUOTING you.

This time I wont quote you but respond to your post as you did mine.

Given Im not the only one on this and other forums to note the inadequcey of the OEM temp gauge in that vintage LR Defender, I stand by my statements.

If 105 is normal, more power to you. But FWIW my LR Defender, lifted, winch in front, higher output engine, stock cooling system never got to 105 towing in SEQ. That before I opted for a lower cracking thermostat and cutting a vent in the left guard. So, what does that mean? Well with LR small cooling system capacity, it has very little room for error. Given my head gasket Let go in my 300tdi before any noticable movement in my old OEM gauge, im happy to say they SUCK.

Yes I agree that if you drop your fluid it wont react quick, actually if you are watching you may see the temp DROP first.

I prefer a gauge that reacts to changes in temp, if my truck is all good and sitting on 92c for its normal duties, then seeing it sit on 99c for the same conditions may indicate a small problem before it becomes a larger one.

Good luck seeing that on the OEM Defender gauge.

Ok so back to the topic. Having just replaced a cracked head and then 1500k later do the whole job again because of a faulty head gasket (thanks ACL choice words) the MTAQ state to R&R a head gasket on a 300tdi is 7 hours at $65 per hour. It didn't take me that long but it's a guide. A bare head retail is going to cost $600-$700. 4k does seem high. I was selling gasket set bare head and head bolts on eBay for $700 so don't get ripped off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uninformed

It wasnt a attack, but YES it was a question directed at you, hence me QUOTING you.

This time I wont quote you but respond to your post as you did mine.

Given Im not the only one on this and other forums to note the inadequcey of the OEM temp gauge in that vintage LR Defender, I stand by my statements.

If 105 is normal, more power to you. But FWIW my LR Defender, lifted, winch in front, higher output engine, stock cooling system never got to 105 towing in SEQ. That before I opted for a lower cracking thermostat and cutting a vent in the left guard. So, what does that mean? Well with LR small cooling system capacity, it has very little room for error. Given my head gasket Let go in my 300tdi before any noticable movement in my old OEM gauge, im happy to say they SUCK.

Yes I agree that if you drop your fluid it wont react quick, actually if you are watching you may see the temp DROP first.

I prefer a gauge that reacts to changes in temp, if my truck is all good and sitting on 92c for its normal duties, then seeing it sit on 99c for the same conditions may indicate a small problem before it becomes a larger one.

Good luck seeing that on the OEM Defender gauge.

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so given all of that...

whats better value, a guage you arent watching anyway and wont matter if you blow all the coolant out or blow the head gasket lets say a nice ricey VDO gauge in a custom binicle with a nice linear sender bolted up with additional harnessing to suit or..

an audiable alarm with a visable indication that will tell you of any leakage in the system combined with some routine maintenance?

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

so given all of that…

whats better value, a guage you arent watching anyway and wont matter if you blow all the coolant out or blow the head gasket lets say a nice ricey VDO gauge in a custom binicle with a nice linear sender bolted up with additional harnessing to suit or..

an audiable alarm with a visable indication that will tell you of any leakage in the system combined with some routine maintenance?

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I never said that VDO was best or best set up, just offered the idea that the OEM is not good and one of many solutions (my first post "VDO or such). Lets not move the goal posts just this once hey.

Not sure what makes you associate VDO with ricer and have to portray them in a negative way? Or is it just those of us that have installed them (many here) In fact, they drop straight into the OEM binnacle, are all black, look nicer than stock and you can actually see them at night….

Im sure your set up is better. But Given your higher than standard maintenance, and having the better set up, your misfortune shows **** can still happen. I was lucky when I did my HG that I caught it before doing any more damage (that on the old 300Tdi and OEM gauge). It was the noise that got my attention first.

I refer to them as ricer gauges because of the binnicle mounts they usually wind up placed in and where they get put, there are far more important gauges that should be in the primary dash other than engine temp (oil pressure, oil temp, boost, EGT, to name 3)

No misfortune about the head gasket blowing in my case..

it was pure operator stupidity, on two counts.

1. Deciding that no, we can put off preventative maintenance to save money (again)
2. problem is that when the missus blew the head gasket she was thumb up bum mind in neutral stereo up loud, noticed the temp gauge had climbed up to the 3/4 point and then continued to drive until the engine stopped 5 minutes later with the flashy warny over heat light and the needle pegged in the red.

(we're very nearly at divorce procedings after the running it for 2 minutes under load with no oil pressure and NOT carrying the **** that should be in the "never take this stuff out of the car if you go outside the metro area" box instance combined with the physically disconnecting the low coolant alarm that was fitted as part of "the melted the head gasket and cracked the heater matrix but cant live without the heater during winter when this goes off refill and purge the cooling system" dieal)

No gauge does you any good if you're not looking at it, know what it means and how it works.

The low coolant alarm fitted to the thermostat housing with an audiable and bright warning light beats out any other gauge system for preventing head damage from a cooling system failure of any kind.

and by your own text....

IF you can hear it, why do you need to have a physical gauge to tell you about it?

I'll be honest when I'm driving I only use the gauges to back up what I already know about whats going on from listening to the vehicle and knowing how it should be reacting to what Im telling it to do.

plenty of vehicles and stationary engines have run for years without anything more than a low coolant shut down warning/shutdown system fitted.

You're absolutely correct Dave. My brother in law has a pootrol with a hand grenade zd30 and he has just had to repair the engine a second time in 40k because it's over boosted and was told to fit a boost gauge, I said that there was no point without a light or a buzzer because you can't drive around with your eyes glued to a gauge. Having said all that I still haven't fitted anything to my Tanami yet.

Considering the OP's original question,................ for a simple and very accessible push rod 4 cyl head remove and refit, head machining, top end gasket kit and replacement bottle I reckon $4K is over the top.

Say 8 hrs labour ($1200 tops), parts ($200 approx.) and another $200 for the proposed head work plus another $100 for coolant, lubricants etc proposed work comes to $1700. Even allowing for '**** happens' extras you're still under $2K for the quoted job.

Though a more realistic assessment of the work required might be..........

Replacement head including valve train, gasket kit and bolts including postage from Turners in UK approx. $1K. plus labour $1200 for a total of $2200.
Assuming the vehicle is being kept a new water pump, thermostat, P gasket, drive belts (they've all got to come off anyway) and there's bound to be at least one idler/pulley bearing crook. Also new injector retaining studs and coolant bottle so add another $500 (including additional labour).

Radiator remove/refit, rod and pressure test plus new hoses say $400 including labour.

Whilst the whole thing's in bits, has the timing belt been done in the last 50K Km's ?, if not then a timing belt kit and crankshaft seals would be a VERY good idea. (Worth checking the viscous assembly and its timing cover bearing here also). Say another $500 here (parts and labour).

Allowing $300 for lubricants/coolant and odds and sods (as in the first example) this gives a grand total of $3900.

So yeah,..........I reckon $4000 for the quoted head remove/machine/refit is a bit steep.

300 Tdi cooling systems are renowned as a 'fragile' system, not much room to move if something goes wrong. Small capacity radiator, failure prone coolant bottle and P gasket and (in)famously crappy temp gauge. So I've got to disagree with Dave's statement here.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

.................................., there are far more important gauges that should be in the primary dash other than engine temp (oil pressure, oil temp, boost, EGT, to name 3 ................

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With a 300 Tdi Defender the most important gauge is the temp gauge as this is the area most likely to have a problem. Let's face it the clock and the fuel gauge are useful but not about to cause catastrophic failure if ignored or failed. :D;):).




[QUOTE=Blknight.aus;2049130........................ ....... plenty of vehicles and stationary engines have run for years without anything more than a low coolant shut down warning/shutdown system fitted.[/QUOTE]

True, but generally they are more thermally robust than the poor old Land Rover 300 Tdi and/or not in a constantly changing off road environment.
But you're bang on with the low water level monitor, especially for the 300 Tdi, a VERY wise investment. :)

A Merry Christmas to all.

Deano:)

Just did mine came in under 1100 total cost with brand new head from turners, not a hard job

On the low water alarm subject. A few weeks ago this very thing saved a less than 10K old Turner's head and gasket - it caught that the heater hose that goes from the top of the head to the matrix, had sprung an invisible leak. The alarm gave me the appropriate warning before anything bad happened. Even then I couldn't find the leak right away - just a small one down the back of the engine, but enough to run the coolant low enough for the alarm to squeal. So, lots of dollars and time saved. I have a digital temp gauge with an alarm too but its only going to make a noise when it gets too hot - not before it happens like the low coolant alarm does. Yay for it.