Traction Control versus Lockers

Iv'e had lockers for about four years now and the only damage I have done to the drive train was to snap an axle, but I was bogged and pulling over six grand when I got traction, my fault not the vehicle or the lockers.

I like the control of the lockers as I can turn them on or off at my discresion, I think they are best for very steep hills up or down, not bad in mud but if you go into mud without a winch ummm well you will be there for as long time because once you are bogged with lockers you are seriously bogged.

I cant see the point of them in sand in fact I think they are a hinderance as you will not get as far, mainly due to the trench you dig when you turn. and sand is a bugger to get out of once you are bogged no matter whether you have lockers or not - tyre size, type and inflation are much more important.

I dont use my lockers on rocky / hard ground as I don't believe the standard landrover drive train is strong enough. Maybe if I had McNamarra axles, diffs and lockers, but then I would be breaking transfercases and gearboxs.

Finally they are excellent on slippery boat ramps.

I have never used traction control so I can't make a comparison I can only offer my view of the ARB units that I ahve and at times have found them invaluable and at other times I shouldn't have used them. At the end of the day experience with them and use with caution (think about the situation and how you will get out) is probably the best moto

Cheers Blitz

Quote:

---

Originally posted by hiline
my personal advise
is tc and lockers dont mix
if you do get lockers front and rear
make sure you pull the fuse or get a switch

---

Why?

Please explain.

This makes no sense to me. If an axle is locked TC cannot kick in as there is no difference between the wheel speeds on the axle.

i copped a bagging for this a while ago

i had 2 landys 110 & 130which i still have
both cars fitted the same in every way

but the 110 would always snap axle's
couldnt work out why :twisted:

we were told it was because of TC
after we found out it was this
never had a problem again just as long as the fuse was pulled

i'm not a mechanical person
but the guy's did explain why it was happening
carnt remember the reason why
but i will ring them tomorrow and give you the answers your after

Hi Ray
THe way I see it is TC locks the wheel that starts to spin allowing the other wheel to maintain traction so a diff lock will negate TC as the wheels cannot spin idependantly.
The dissadvantage with TC is that in mud sand or snow it will tend to over react and bog the vehicle

Hope this makes sense

Peter


AMV Win in Malaysia


AMV Win Outback Challenge

this guy knows about 4wd

Quote:

---

Originally posted by hiline
Hi Ray
THe way I see it is TC locks the wheel that starts to spin allowing the other wheel to maintain traction so a diff lock will negate TC as the wheels cannot spin idependantly.
The dissadvantage with TC is that in mud sand or snow it will tend to over react and bog the vehicle

Hope this makes sense

Peter


AMV Win in Malaysia


AMV Win Outback Challenge

this guy knows about 4wd

---

Peter is saying *exactly* the same thing as me, but in different words.

We agree that TC is effectively negated/disabled with a locker.

The reason is because TC relies on one wheel on an axle spinning faster than the other. In the case of the Mitsubishi system, a 3kmph difference will do it.

Once the computers detect that difference they apply the brake to the spinning wheel several times a second. This has the result of transferring torque to the wheel that is not spinning as fast, which is almost by definition the one with more traction.

A cross-axle difflock forces both wheels to spin at the same speed. Therefore, while TC may be active, it is never engaged because can be no difference between the speeds of the wheels on a given axle. There is no point pulling the fuse, it can't activate anyway.

now the car would be fine
go well must of the time when 4wd
we would watch the tc working and even here it pulsing between wheels
now dont forget all wheels are spinning at this stage freely and at great speed

but as soon as we locked front & rear air lockers
the wheels would slowdown to a complete stop
they would shudder & shake
then snap there goes yet another axle
around 8 intotal all up

but as soon as we pulled the fuse
never happened again

Hmm, that is most interesting, and doesn't make any sense to me. I believe you, no question, I just do not understand what is happening there and I like to understand these things!

There is only one explanation I can think of, and that is perhaps the lockers were engaged while the wheels were madly spinning. That might confuse the TC enough so it continues to activate (even though it shouldn't) when the axle is locked and the wheels are at the same speed.

That sounds like the most probable explanation to me.

The solution would be to engage lockers BEFORE the wheels start madly spinning. This is good practice anyway.

At which point were the lockers engaged? While the wheels were spinning, or when all four wheels had traction?

never engaged them as they were spinning 8O 8O
only when we had lost traction from TC
but it never happened at slow speeds like rock crawling and stuff
only when you would give it a good dose of the right foot :wink:

yes we were all puzzled to why this was happening
but like i said once it was de-fused it was fine

Which model/year Defender was this?

2000 110 extreme td5