Did You know this 'Can' happen to a diesel (Death by oil)

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Originally Posted by rainman

It doesn't work like that. The EGT is an average of the individual combustion chamber output temperatures, not an accumulation.

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I probably should rephrase that:

I didn't think it worked like that. I thought the EGT was an average of the individual combustion chamber output temperatures, not an accumulation.

Sorry :rolleyes:
James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rainman

It doesn't work like that. The EGT is an average of the individual combustion chamber output temperatures, not an accumulation.

I must have missed something about the position of the EGT probe. Isn't common perception is that it should be pre turbo?

Please, correct my if I'm wrong anyone.


James

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Yes, prefferably it should be pre turbo, but not uncommon to be post. I had my mechanic install it ages ago. The exhaust on my truck is from when I had it fitted to the 300tdi. The exhaust shop had installed a fitting just after the exhaust flange (turbo to exhaust) to test egt's for tuning. So later, when I bought a gauge, my mechanic used this fitting for the probe. I have been working on a max of 550c for post turbo but I very VERY rarely get that, and if I do I back off

Now looking at my set up of exhaust manifold and turbo flange, it is not the easiest place to fit the probe, becasue you want it where all 4 cylinders are merged into one, which is right at the flange of the manifold and turbo

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rainman

I probably should rephrase that:

I didn't think it worked like that. I thought the EGT was an average of the individual combustion chamber output temperatures, not an accumulation.

Sorry :rolleyes:
James.

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to late, I already quoted you...hahahaha :p

I have no idea, it was just a stab....BUT would it not be the same but different. The average is still going to be scewed by the single cylinder that is above the rest, so the probe only reads the combined average, which in my case still below safe EGT reading on my gauge, but it wasnt in reality

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Now looking at my set up of exhaust manifold and turbo flange, it is not the easiest place to fit the probe, becasue you want it where all 4 cylinders are merged into one, which is right at the flange of the manifold and turbo

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This is a concern of mine at the moment because I'm about to go VNT on my 300Tdi. It would be very easy to just weld the probe fitting into the dump pipe. Good to know what temperature you work on post turbo in case I have to go that way;). Thanks Serg!

James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Now looking at my set up of exhaust manifold and turbo flange, it is not the easiest place to fit the probe, becasue you want it where all 4 cylinders are merged into one, which is right at the flange of the manifold and turbo

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This is the post of how Jock in Tasmania did his with his VNT kit, but my probe is about twice the size of his (hehehe, he said "probe" :p) and I'm not sure if I want it interrupting the flow of gases right at that point. Hmmm....

We're probably deviating away from the thread subject a bit here. Sorry.

James.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rainman

This is the post of how Jock in Tasmania did his with his VNT kit, but my probe is about twice the size of his (hehehe, he said "probe" :p) and I'm not sure if I want it interrupting the flow of gases right at that point. Hmmm....

We're probably deviating away from the thread subject a bit here. Sorry.

James.

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My VDO probe is long to....BUT I think that atleast 1/3 is outside the exhaust. It has the fitting welded, then a reduction nut screwed to that, the the probe. Jock's set up looks like a good spot.

I would like the experts opinion on: #1 is it bad for air flow or readings in any way?
#2 is it any issue re strenghth, warping or cracking to drill and tap the flange like Jock has?

I dont think this is getting to far from topic, as this may have been an integral tool in stopping this engine failure. Maybe a pre turbo egt probe would have told me something different???

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Originally Posted by uninformed

So, to those that know, what parts would you replace as a matter of good practice in a engine rebuild?

Im not talking about what is, or may be broken. Rather what parts you just dont use again and replace with new.

I need to order some International specific stuff and only want to do 1 order if possible.

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All the bearings, the bump stick, the crank if its out of spec or on its final oversize (if its my engine, if someone else wants to use a crank on final oversize, their call) followers, depending on condition the rocker shaft and arms. every gaskest, all the cooling system plugs, all the seals, oil pump relief valve spring and ball.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

All the bearings, the bump stick, the crank if its out of spec or on its final oversize (if its my engine, if someone else wants to use a crank on final oversize, their call) followers, depending on condition the rocker shaft and arms. every gaskest, all the cooling system plugs, all the seals, oil pump relief valve spring and ball.

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What ??!!

The engine is only 70,000km old Dave.
Serg has already posted above that his mechanic reckons the cam looks great with zero wear.

Serg, I'd re-use everything if it mics up OK (and it should) except I'd use new rod bolts, and obviously bearings, gaskets and seals (and I would've thought that was obvious, but Dave mentioned them)
Head bolts should be OK too.

Ask, and they'll probably do it anyway, but I'd have the rods checked for straightness and twist too, maybe the block tunnel bored or at least checked (it's apart anyway) and the crank indexed, although usually on diesels they are a little more careful in their setup and machining at the factory than petrol engine are.
Oil pump relief valve spring too as Dave mentioned.

Any news on the head yet ?
I'd be a little sus on the valves in that #2 cylinder, in which case it's valves, seals, lash caps and check the valve springs just incase too.
Check the retainers and collets but they should be OK after the rev and get Rick to check the roller followers too, but if the cam looks OK they should be fine.
AFAIK all the head bits should be 300Tdi parts.
Check Turner's pricing, it may be even cheaper to get those bits from them in the UK too.

Actually, looking at the parts list the head and valves have MWM part #'s but the springs and retainers use Land Rover #'s ?
Talk on the forums over the last few years reckoned new OE heads were HS2.8, but I'd give Turners a call in the UK and ask.
If anyone knew, they would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick130

What ??!!

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read again...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uninformed

what parts would you replace as a matter of good practice in a engine rebuild?

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in particular that bit....

best practice not what can you get away with. I'm guessing uninformed wants a total list for a quote and will then whittle best practice VS reasonable.

Hell that engine you'd probably be able to make good again with just one OS piston and a set of rings.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rick130

What ??!!

The engine is only 70,000km old Dave.
Serg has already posted above that his mechanic reckons the cam looks great with zero wear.

Serg, I'd re-use everything if it mics up OK (and it should) except I'd use new rod bolts, and obviously bearings, gaskets and seals (and I would've thought that was obvious, but Dave mentioned them)
Head bolts should be OK too.

Ask, and they'll probably do it anyway, but I'd have the rods checked for straightness and twist too, maybe the block tunnel bored or at least checked (it's apart anyway) and the crank indexed, although usually on diesels they are a little more careful in their setup and machining at the factory than petrol engine are.
Oil pump relief valve spring too as Dave mentioned.

Any news on the head yet ?
I'd be a little sus on the valves in that #2 cylinder, in which case it's valves, seals, lash caps and check the valve springs just incase too.
Check the retainers and collets but they should be OK after the rev and get Rick to check the roller followers too, but if the cam looks OK they should be fine.
AFAIK all the head bits should be 300Tdi parts.
Check Turner's pricing, it may be even cheaper to get those bits from them in the UK too.

Actually, looking at the parts list the head and valves have MWM part #'s but the springs and retainers use Land Rover #'s ?
Talk on the forums over the last few years reckoned new OE heads were HS2.8, but I'd give Turners a call in the UK and ask.
If anyone knew, they would.

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What Rick said.

No need to replace parts that are still good for 500k km +

On the EGT thing, if all cylinders are operating at the same efficiency with the same fuel and air delivery then the outlet should be isothermal. I.e., the temps from each cylinder should be the same (and equal to the temp measured at a prob pre-turbo).