New td5INSIDE turbo from stock 2052 to 20XX

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Originally Posted by Judo

[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=2]Dougal, what are you doing?! You hate it when people ruin your threads, why are you doing it to someone else who is clearly trying to achieve the same as you - find the perfect turbo for a particular diesel engine?

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My first and second post in this thread is advice for Jose or anyone else developing a GT20 based turbo for the TD5.

Then Jose asked questions, so I answered them.

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Originally Posted by Judo

I respect you know a lot about turbos and I bought a turbo on your years of work and recommendation - and I really appreciate that - but from what I've seen you have changed your mind on the best turbo as more information has become available. Does that mean you were wrong up until now? (Don't respond - the answer is no, you developed your answer over time).

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The change in my recommendations for the 4BD1T came about through myself finding a way to generate turbine maps when the manufacturers don't provide any info.
The original recommendations still stand and perform as they always did, I've just found new ones which have a wider operating range.

Remember. There's a difference between sharing and selling.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

If I had a TD5 I'd ....

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Thank you....that´s enough for me! I have 2 just for me and have worked in hundreds, maybe thousands I think!

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Originally Posted by Dougal

My first and second post in this thread is advice for Jose.

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I´ve asked the advice of one of the top leading turbos companys overhere, wich has background, competition expericence, ways and skills.We made them questions, they have give us answers... we start on develping!

Really sorry for not asking advices to someone that pops up in to every td5inside thread´s here in the AULRO trying to make as look bad and makes look uncounscious tuners.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

The only holdup would be finding and fitting a MAP sensor capable of covering the turbos pressure range. I notice there's no mention of this by you!

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Really?? You expect me to tell everything about our researches?? You want me to say that there are MAP sensors in the VAG group wich give us wider ranges?!! What should we mention after that, the partnumber from that sensor?
Same thing with Pierburg MAF sensors fitted in some BMW´s, wich are in fact sold by another tuning company has upragde MAF (very legit, since they have reserch and found a solution some years ago?)

Next step is for me to give my very own td5 WinOLS table list with identified maps and fields were to mess, just because I need to mention it!! Please!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Remember. There's a difference between sharing and selling.

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For this reason I did not say I have a turbo ready for sale (that´s why it is not in the vendors place, were I have my very own payed space). I have only talked about price because DJam asked for it and its not a final price.
If this was a thread for selling it would be in vendors place and would have asked the adminstration of this forum to remove your commments.

I did say we are in the process of developing a new turbo in wich we will test a lot of solutions from the new generation of turbo materials and we will be sharing with all this deveoloping process! At the end we should have a cost efective Turbo for the ones that want a bit more performance from turbos that should be close to half the price of the VNT and maybe it can be a good option for some people.

Regards,

When Jose first posted this I thought great, it will be interesting to see the development process and how it turns out. Having a TD5 130 I'll learn some more about the engine, turbo, maps etc. But then it takes no time for this to turn into what seems to be a personalized attack on Jose for letting us know what he is doing.
I don't get it Dougal, you have obviously spent lots of time and effort on turbo analysis and optimization for the Isuzu. You have told us about your projects and I'm sure lots of people have benefitted so why not let others do the same? Your line about you just answering his questions seems like you justifying your agro response to Jose.
If you don't like what he is doing for some reason PM him but don't stuff it up for the rest of us
Nick

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Originally Posted by Nick S

When Jose first posted this I thought great, it will be interesting to see the development process and how it turns out. Having a TD5 130 I'll learn some more about the engine, turbo, maps etc. But then it takes no time for this to turn into what seems to be a personalized attack on Jose for letting us know what he is doing.

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I think you expect too much with turbo maps etc. I'm yet to find anyone selling "custom" turbos who will supply *any* technical information for turbo matching.

This isn't a personalised attack at all. It's the standard warning for people trying to apply ricer turbos to diesels.
Clipping turbines is so ricers can get a higher dyno reading without buying a turbo with a bigger turbine. It has problems in every other part of the operating range.
Apparently Jose doesn't want to know about that, which is fine, he can put his time and money wherever he sees fit.

Personally I think Jose should be selling off the shelf GT2056's with TD5 turbine housings as a bolt on upgrade.
Proven product straight from Garrett with warranty, performance maps etc.

But of course it doesn't have the bling factor of anodised compressor wheels or the hype of "specially developed".

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Originally Posted by Nick S

I don't get it Dougal, you have obviously spent lots of time and effort on turbo analysis and optimization for the Isuzu. You have told us about your projects and I'm sure lots of people have benefitted so why not let others do the same? Your line about you just answering his questions seems like you justifying your agro response to Jose.
If you don't like what he is doing for some reason PM him but don't stuff it up for the rest of us
Nick

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It can be very hard to pick tone on the internet. My posts certainly weren't intended as "agro".
The Isuzu turbo work I have done is the most visible on this forum but I've sized turbos for engines from tiny to a little over 13 litres. The Td5 is not a special case, it's one I've mapped out before from stock to a clean ~170kw.

What have I stuffed up for the rest of you? This is the "Technical Chatter" forum. It's a place for technical discussions.

Dougal, I'm not questioning your experience, just that the post "seems" to be combative as opposed to a technical discussion. I think that Judo picked up the same thing and it looks like a number of people agree judging by the thanks on his post. Probably best to leave it at that. A lot of us look forward to your technical insights
Nick

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Originally Posted by Nick S

Dougal, I'm not questioning your experience, just that the post "seems" to be combative as opposed to a technical discussion. I think that Judo picked up the same thing and it looks like a number of people agree judging by the thanks on his post. Probably best to leave it at that. A lot of us look forward to your technical insights
Nick

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I agree. It seems to happen every single time. I'm pleased that TD5Inside has continued to share with us his really interesting developments despite this, and I hope he can continue sharing them into the future without what I see as constant attacks on his work.

I'm in agreement too.

Dougal,

When I start remapping td5´s there were off the shelf damos files for the td5 map, with some submaps identified... These damos were reliable and good and came from a reputable company. 90% of the map files that are made for td5 (or any other car actually) are made from these WinOLS damos files or, if in use ECM titaniun, with other files wich normaly have even less submaps identified.

What we did , was reverse engenierieng of the td5 ECU, constant research on all the submaps to try and have controll of more things and try and improve the map files and what we expect from them even more!

That said, I´m not saying your suggestion is bad...but, its just your suggestion and there are companies wich already follow your suggestion, like there are companies wich have VNT´s - both are bolt on!

We have made a lot, and I mean a lot of td5 with different turbos, some like your suggestion (simple 2056 in TD5 turbine housings) some with VNT ... We have used the bolt on options from turbo technics, but also turbos that came from other cars and were adapted like the 2052 from audi, the 2056 from Alfa 5 cilinder 2.4 jtd, the 2056 from the VW LT, the 2256 from the BMW, etc etc etc

All these options worked and were ok, some more then others... but.... The bolt on VNT turbos are a bit expensive IMHO; Adapting other cars turbo, works ok but requires some fitting work wich is not optimal for overseas buyers; 2056 in td5 turbine housing seamed to produced bit more lag and we were not satisfied.

So, we went to these turbo companie wich is having amazing sucess and making fantastic turbos for all sort of applications, and told them what we have done, tested, experienced... what worked, what failed ( we told them that lag question), and asked them if they could do something better... They´r answer, was yes, we can! Let us test some new solutions and see what we can achieve! We are now at this point , and I will share the results. If something will not work, we will be the first ones to say, that works, that does not, this is the ideal, this is a saleable product in wich I trust and guarantee!

Real Life Experience - We are also trying these turbos in the most stock car´s possible... This is the first turbo being fitted to a defender 90 td5 with stock gear and diff ratio but one of this turbos is already running since a few weeks ago - problem is, the car has nissan axles wich have have differente ratio and for that reason we do not have a "real context" experience.... nevertheless it seams to go very well :) and I will post some videos later here.

Regards,

P.S. - The commercial point of view for this turbos its very easy and simple... td5 is in the market since 1998. Turbo failures because of use/age/mileage is becoming more often... so, why not reparing the turbo and make an upgrade... The difference in price from a full repair or a full repair with upgrade will certanly let people thinking about it, specially because VNTs are a lot more expensive.
From this point, we will also be able to source the turbos off the shelf for the overseas buyers, including remap to match!

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Originally Posted by Dougal

The Td5 is not a special case...

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And I´m sorry to disagree ... yes it is ! It´s very special... Actually, it´s fantastic :)

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Originally Posted by td5inside

So, we went to these turbo companie wich is having amazing sucess and making fantastic turbos for all sort of applications, and told them what we have done, tested, experienced... what worked, what failed ( we told them that lag question), and asked them if they could do something better... They´r answer, was yes, we can! Let us test some new solutions and see what we can achieve! We are now at this point , and I will share the results. If something will not work, we will be the first ones to say, that works, that does not, this is the ideal, this is a saleable product in wich I trust and guarantee!

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Jose - Thanks for taking the time to share your ongoing development work with us. This is looking to be an exciting project and I look forward to reading your updates. Keep up the great work!