Blue smoke from a Diesel, only under certain conditions

Yep checked it at the time. the timing seems to be perfect.
if it was one tooth out i'm guessing it would not fire...

i used the tools and timed it spot on, i think.

OK 2nd twist...
after it started to do it bad, ie this trip it is not hard to start, but it missfires and sounds as though its running on 2 or 3 cylinders, then it clears its throat.
i orig thought it was us being at 1600meters above sea level and below 0deg C.
But last night i moved the Fender to find same start fault.
it clears up but you can judge its smoke as its cold and it always poofed blue smoke on start for a minute or 2.

1st Morning in the High Country it was a beast to start, fired straight up, but then ran on 2 or 3 for about 1 minute. i had to provoke it with some right foot to get it to clear... and lordy me it was pumping blue smoke out....

I might have got a bad hit of fuel in Melb, but i really doubt it.
Since then it has had 50 litres thrown in it and is half empty again. Still same fault.

OK i will check the intake to see how much oil is in it, if that is the case then it proberly is the PCV or hurracane valve filling the intake up.
That problem can be solved by a clean or a bypass to a catch can for the time being.

My scare is that i'm hoping its not a dead donk, ie rings...
Or worse still if it starts to run on its own oil....
If that happens you will see a pic of a Fender Burnt to the ground.... i'll torch it if that happens...... Grrrrr :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

So this weekend i'll unpack it, clean it and then start by pulling the Turbo hoses off and PCV and intercooler and cleaning it.

Its only a smidge overfull on oil as we speak as i topped it up the 1st night as it seemed to have drunk about 300ml. Could be wrong...

I've just priced a Head gasket incase the Gasket has blown, the missfiring at start up has me concerned but water level is ok.

I'm just scared incase it does the run on its oil thing, only one way to stop them.... Block the air or watch it self destruct...

I'll keep you in the loop...

Ohh question.. as this has Air con. How in hell do you get the intercooler out as the top radiator plate is bolted to the condensor and it is not encaged nuts... Grrr.... cause i would have cleaned it last time if i could get it out easy.

Any idea's from DefenderZook or 200TDiDefender would be super...

Steve

Update.....
Update.......

I spoke to the Guru of Landys (Fred Smith) who has informed me it is most likely Pump Timing.

He has explained that if they are out only a whisker they will blow blue/white smoke.
I explained the conditions its doing it and when it does it and the start problem and he is thinking it is Pump timing.

So this weekend i have to clean the Turbo pipes and also check the Pump timing.

Lets hope it is..... other wise i'll be really scratching my head

A quick question here...what is the mileage on this donk and how has it been treated?


My gut feeling is the the oil ring; while the rest has merit, there's a basic rule of physics to apply. Blue smoke is oil and somehow it's being burnt, which means it's getting into the firing chamber; so how is it getting in there in enough volume to do so? By your description of oil consumption via the sump......

As was said before and above....

If it is the oil ring this can be ameliorated for a while, but the piston rings, time for a rebuild.

Compression check would also be advisable.

Exhaust valves are not ultimately an excuse for oil (blue smoke) burning, in my experience. ie if they're sus you would have already noticed other dramas,

Back to Q#1 mr clarke I'm curious. Pump timing? I thought the idea was that the oil was a continuous (and therefore irrespective) flow and as the pistons moved up and down, oil drew to lube the pot, but the oil didn't get past the last of the three rings or you'd be drawing oil and burning it, inturn compression would be lower than spec.

Cheers, GQ

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Ohh question.. as this has Air con. How in hell do you get the intercooler out as the top radiator plate is bolted to the condensor and it is not encaged nuts... Grrr.... cause i would have cleaned it last time if i could get it out easy. [/b][/quote]

Hmm, this one is a pain. I recently took the radiator & intercooler out to get the rad tanks sweated off for a thorough clean, and at the same time flushed the intercooler. Unfortunately, even with the top plate off, you don't seem to be able to get either unit out because the end plates are folded over and there isn't enough room to get them out with the A/C condensor in place. :roll:

The only way I could get either rad or ic out was to remove the front slam panel, unbolt the A/C condensor from the front of the rad, and gently swing it forward so I could then lift the entire rad/ic assembly complete with it's surround up out of the vehicle. Note that the A/C condensor must be moved forward first, because it sits on the bottom of the rad surround and wont allow that to be lifted as is. The slam panel had to be dissassembled on mine because the stays were in the way of the bolts holding the A/C condensor to the rad and prevented me being able to swing the condensor forward.

An obvious word of warning here, the lines to the A/C condensor are alloy, 12 years old and wont appreciated being pushed and pulled around. Move things as little as you can possibly get away with to get the rad out. You don't want to over stress the pipes and be rewarded with a pssssst from a cracked line, especially with an old R12 system.



Paul [img]style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif[/img]

Quote:

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Originally posted by Quiggers



,

Back to Q#1 mr clarke I'm curious. Pump timing? I thought the idea was that the oil was a continuous (and therefore irrespective) flow and as the pistons moved up and down, oil drew to lube the pot, but the oil didn't get past the last of the three rings or you'd be drawing oil and burning it, inturn compression would be lower than spec.

Cheers, GQ

---

Injection pump timing not oil pump. THe belt has been changed just before the problem was noticed, it's easy to get the pump timing wrong if you don't do the belt job correct. Poor pump timing will make them smoke just like this.

Yep Shaunp, thats what i have been told.
Blueish smoke, rough start could be pump timing.

1 way to find out, Pull it down and look.

i'll clean the Turbo hosed/intercooler while i'm there.

and unpack it....lol.. still full of camping gear and Fridge...

You can check the timing via the window on the cover I think.

Thats what i'm hoping......

if not Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr

Got it, shaunp, thanks, this might explain one of my issues. really must get it tuned!

GQ

Fellas,
i like it when someone comes up with little problems we can all relate to.
My 300TDI, does a similar thing going downhill but only does it when it is cold, as soon as you start accelerating ( at the bottom of the hill) this big puff of whitish/bluish brownish smoke comes out and that is it. It doesn't do it again,on that day. I figured it was oil from the intercooler or turbo.(It never did it when we lived in Sydney.)Sitting around all night with nothing to do.

My Pajero would do the bad smoke trick as you described except in reverse backing off coming up hill, to turn into my street. Found the cause BP ultimate diesel, I don;t recall what everyone has stated is the fuel of their choice but in my vehicles the stuff is rubbish, even in the discovery, too much smoke to be normal efen under light load, changed brands and no more smoke.

The rough startup, 2 or 3 cylinders then a cough and normall idling, I belive is injectors more so that timing. I also have rough starting in the pajero, ( worst with that terrible bp fuel) it coughs on about 3 cylinders for a minute or so, smokes the mozzies out of the trees and clears itself. I put a new set of injectors in when I had the motor rebuilt, I think one is sticking or has something to do with the spray patern, they were checked but it wasn;t bad enough to replace again. Its one of those indiosyncrasies you put up with.

good luck, at least its not an electrical fault your chasing!

john