2.8 tgv diesel (big 300tdi ) power loss any ideas?

How can I get tdc by taking the rocker cover off, if there is a straight forward way to do that it would be the easier option I think


Last time we did the timing we just lined up all the marks got a drill in the injector pump and put it back together, has been fine for almost two years, if it is the timing I'm a bit worried as to why it's out now, performance has slowly gone down until we have reached this sorry state but I was expecting more than 50k from the timing belt could it just have stretched in its middle age or should I be looking to replace it sooner rather than later?

Should know tomorrow if it's timing or not, I will post the results


Thanks again

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

With regards to FIP timing a drill bit through the front is the quick easy loose manner to check timing.
Removing the centre cap from amongst the FIP fuel lines, using a dial test indicator and plunger screwed into the centre cap and physically measuring the plunger lift as you rock around TDC is the accurate way to assess/adjust FIP timing.


s

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Unfortunately I don't have the required tooling to test it, I do have a drill bit so I thought I would try it with that and if it's the problem it might be a trip to the landrover specialist and get them to do it properly, as much as anything I'm trying to be sure I know what the problem is before I pay money for the fix.

You are, of course, quite right to say the dial gauge is the most accurate way to test the timing, not something I can do at the moment though.

Thanks for all your help so far

Im not sure why your timing would have gone off over two years - belt wear is a possibility albeit unlikely... how secure was the retaining plate on the FIP when you did your belt change?

The factory method to do a belt is lock the flywheel, lock the FIP rotor (drill bit if you like) loosen the retaining plate for FIP and juggle the belt on while making sure cam stays on its marks. If the flywheel is not locked I guess it is possible to use rock in the crank to align the teeth rather than adjusting the retaining plate of the FIP... This would likely show up earlier than 2years 50,oookm BUT If your retaining plate loosens then FIP timing can go out by a significant margin.

Depending on what diameter pin(drill bit) you lock the FIP rotor with it is possible to advance retard the pump significantly.

I think your best bet is to pull the timing cover and have a look at cam and FIP timing?
You will need to establish TDC somehow

You can establish TDC by monitoring the valve train...
I could write it out or otherwise I just stole the below from here

Finding TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC) Casually


Very often you have a completely assembled engine, and you can use the timing mark on the crankshaft pulley to find TDC. This however does not tell you if it is on the compression stroke or exhaust stroke, which are 360 degrees apart, or offset by one complete rotation of the crankshaft. With TDC on the compression stroke the intake and exhaust valves are both closed. With TDC on the exhaust stroke the intake and exhaust valves are both open (partially open). For this you can remove the valve cover and look at the rocker arms to see which ones are fully up (slightly loose) and which ones are partly depressed (intake and exhaust arms at the same height), one moving up while the other is moving down.

So I located tdc, aluminum rod down the injector hole, and took the cover plate off of the front of the pump, the timing is so far out it actually won't line up with the hole, I mean can't even see it, getting the pin in the hole moves the piston well past tdc, would that be consistent with jumping a tooth on the belt?

Timing belt kit next I am thinking.

Really hope that's the issue, swmbo is starting to talk about getting rid, this looks like my last attempt

Possible teeth movement or possible that the FIP retaining plate is loose and let the spring pressure work against the pulley location?

Is the belt loose? like super loose? you could check the tension on the belt (supposed to be 11Nm from memory) measured at the tensioner pulley?

At TDC does the cam pulley mark line up with the cast pedestal in the case? ie is cam timing spot on?

When the the new belt arrives, get the pump locked in position. Align flywheel/no.1 piston at TDC (lock it somehow if you can) and align cam timing. Put on new belt and tension up.

Whatever the cause, if at TDC the FIP is not aligned THAT is why she is running like crap and EGTs are up.

Either ****ty belt or FIP retaining plate issue?

You have found the problem, FIP timing was out.
Fix it and voila

S

Well the plan is to get the front cover off and have a look, I am hoping that the timing will be obviously way out and that will be that ,


Will let you all know how it goes

Well the front cover came off over the weekend, and as you guys predicted the timing was way out,couple of teeth at least, so with a light heart we got eveything lined up, pin in the injector pump, and put it back together.

It still won't start, with all the marks lined up (bearing in mind I have no flywheel locking position so we turned the engine until the arrow on the casting met the mark on the wheel ), is it possible for it to be 180 degrees out, or am I clutching at straws now?

This is really starting to get to me now.

Any hints very greatly appreciated

If you want I might be able to get up to berpengary tomorrow afternoon and have a look for you.
I have the timing tools for 300 tdi so I assume they will fit.


Send me a pm with your phone number and address, If I finish work early enough I'll give you a call.


Cheers
Tony

yes you can set yourself up 180 degrees out and its stupidly easy toget the cam timing out a tooth or 2. From memory you dont get valves to pistons contact till you are more than 2 teeth out of in position.

heres my howto on it, if it helps

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...ming-belt.html

post 9 details recovering from timing out of spec without specialist tools.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-t...ming-belt.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jboot51

If you want I might be able to get up to berpengary tomorrow afternoon and have a look for you.
I have the timing tools for 300 tdi so I assume they will fit.


Send me a pm with your phone number and address, If I finish work early enough I'll give you a call.


Cheers
Tony

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Thanks so much

PM sent