D2 Spring rate dilema & options

Here we go the great debate :!:

- Billies are monotube, prone to knocks which stuffs them instantly.
solution: fit heavy metal shielding which negates the cooling benefits of a monotube shock.

- Billies cost nearly twice that of OME. So working on 2yr/40,000km warranty I should get 4 years from 2 sets of OME at the least.

-Leading shocks eg... LR rear, are prone to stone damage, the twin tube is mroe resiliant to this damage.

- Billies are valveable, yes, at a price. The OMEs are pretty good value out of the box. Billies are valved rather stiff for D2a and experience on a D1 showed cracking on corrugated tracks to a Billie installed D1, the other D1 to same spec springs/load ran OME which worked fine with no damage.

A D2 owner running Billies suffered major cracking on a trip to the radiator support panel, he removed the Billies, fixed the panel and hasnt had a repeat incident.

Try getting a Billie in Pt Headland etc... OME has stuff everywhere most of the time.

As for springs. A soft spring with ace works fine on "side to side" rolling. But ACE bears no use under pitching or bouncing.
Not as pronounced on a SLS Disco as the rear bags are 'variable' rate. and counteract a lot of the pitching but a sprung Disco will slam soft springs down so hard it regularly hits the bumpstops. A laden disco 2 will always exagerate this effect.

Spring rates are not too hard if they ride the corrugations well and still flex when offroad and crossed up.

My defender had 295lb fronts and 360lb rears and would cross up to the bumpstops offroad (Ask Pete Sneig at MLR) The only specification change occured when I replaced the front bar/winch combo which reduced mass. And lightened the rear by modifying the cargo draws.
Now I run 220Lb fronts and 320Lb rears.

This setup still fully flexes offroad and is comfortable on the roughest tracks.

Considering I run Dual LTRs on each corner the ride is lovely.

To quote a Landy suspension specialist.
When fitting dual shocks we use OME or Koni.
The Bilstein shocks are valved so firm they become very excessive used in pairs. At best if a firmer ride is desired we run 1 Bilstein, 1 OME.

Cheers
Mike

Hee hee hee! I knew my comments would get a lengthy post from you. :wink:

But seriously, I know you are pro OME, but after having them on the Jeep & Disco I would not choose to have them again. They are ok value for money but after having both OME & Tough Dog I would go TD if I wanted a value for money shock. The OME on the Jeep was just plain bad (I dont think ARB put a lot of effort into the Jeep shock but you can't blame them) and was too firm for me on the Disco.

I have Bilstein on the Rangie but it came with them already on it.

Quote:

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Originally posted by walker
But seriously, I know you are pro OME

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Actually not pro OME, but pro value for money.

Having said that I run LTRs so never have fade or performance issues.
OME are a good $/performance equation.
TD are ok but pricey and not specifically valved to a vehicle.

On a disco OME offer 2 the Comfort and the Heavy. So 2 preset choices already. We did have comfort front/Heavy rear for a while too....

Considering the price of the OME I believe for most applications theyre fine. And about as long as you can go without modifying lines etc...

Tough Dogs I cant see value for the $$$

Many, Many vehicles travel miles on OME and TJM shocks with no problem.

Jeeps arent a good example though, the American wallow can only be killed by stiff valving!!!! :twisted:

Cheers
Mike

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Originally posted by tombraider

Tough Dogs I cant see value for the $$$

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I only paid $600 for a set of 4 Tough Dogs. I don't know what OME cost but it must be comparable.

Anyway, it's late, go to bed Old Man https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Now that's just thrown it all up in the air. I was unaware that the Bilsteins may be firmer than OME and as I am trying to soften my ride, I will need to do more research......jees this is tough 8O Only thought of going the Bilsteins after talking to Andrew from Les Richmond although we never got on to speaking about valving etc.

One thing though, I have never come near to hitting a bump stop - I don't think - as I don't really drive very hard and at present am not doing any long distance touring - or short distance for that matter. When off road the OME set up does do it's job well but as it spends most of it's time on road - with rear drawers, compressor etc still on board, I really want to try and find a smoother ride as it really is VERY harsh.

Tomeraider, you asked about tyres, I run 265/75r16 BFG muds at 30 psi all round on road - any thoughts.

Walker, when you say "with ACE you don't need the springs that hard", do you mean as hard as mine (180 fr & 340 r) or just that hard in general?

Anyway, I will keep on searching for the right set up but I am willing to spend $ if it will make a sgnificant improvement. Having said that as my OME kit has only been on the car for just over a year and has done about 30,000k's, if I can keep certain parts and combine with another set up, that is a bonus.

Again thanks for the input and PLEASE keep all suggestions coming as I am very new to suspension options.

Aye, Mick

Yes as hard as yours. As I said I had 150lb springs on mine and it was perfect. I know 2 others who also run 2" lifts with 150lb front springs. You only need 180lb springs if you DON'T have ACE.

For the rear I would go 20lb more than standard but get it longer for a lift. You wont be disapointed with the ride but it will sag a bit when loaded.

The lighter the spring the better the suspension must work, it's just physics.

If you are in QLD it may be worth speaking to Dobinson Springs and see if they will custom make springs. Or look up the phone book and see if there are any spring manufacturers in Brisbane. You will pay half the price of off the shelf springs and get what you want.

As for shock absorbers, it's totally up to you. Another alternative may be the tough Dog 9 way adjustable shock, this way you can dial it in for what you want. Or any other adjustable shock....just not Rancho.

My only comment about this is,

I have the so called 2" lift with OME springs and Bilstiens shocks, yeah right, in reality it's only 40mm when new and 20mm to 25mm when it has settled.

When i first installed them i measured before and then installed, then measured after, i got 45mm at the front and 40mm at the rear, 4mths later i measured them again as i'm going for new shocks and springs again as the OMEs have sagged and won't take the weight anymore of the camper and gear in the back, just under 25mm rear and 20mm at the front.

No OME springs this time and no Bilstiens either, this setup (hopefully) will cope, i'm going Lovell springs and Procomp or Tough Dog front, i'm keeping the Bilstiens in the rear untill they need replacing, as they are still good (only new replaced under warrenty a couple of months ago) the fronts however are not good and to short anyway for the new lift.

My setup will be the same as Slunnies and Gidget, without the 33s :cry:
I'll stay with the 31s because of the towing i do as 33s will just kill the power when touring, and not to mention the fuel economy.

Baz.

Quote:

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Originally posted by walker
For the rear I would go 20lb more than standard but get it longer for a lift. You wont be disapointed with the ride but it will sag a bit when loaded.

The lighter the spring the better the suspension must work, it's just physics.

If you are in QLD it may be worth speaking to Dobinson Springs and see if they will custom make springs. Or look up the phone book and see if there are any spring manufacturers in Brisbane. You will pay half the price of off the shelf springs and get what you want.

As for shock absorbers, it's totally up to you. Another alternative may be the tough Dog 9 way adjustable shock, this way you can dial it in for what you want. Or any other adjustable shock....just not Rancho.

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Thanks again Walker, excuse my ignorance but what would the standard spring rate be for the rear of a D2 - no rear seats if that makes a difference? 270lbs in the rear has been suggested, would that be about right to you think? I like the idea of 150 in the front as I really want to soften the ride up but maintain the 2" lift - will have a chat with Dobinsons at some point today. As for shocks, adjustables are probably streching the budget a bit but will see what Dobinson recomend to match their spring and then assess everyone's recomendations from there.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Redback
My setup will be the same as Slunnies and Gidget, without the 33s

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Do you mean 4" lift? I would liike to stay with the 2" but am concerned that going softer springs will mean some slight sag or do they make the springs to eventually sit at the desired height - meaning, would a softer spring sit higher than a stiffer one when laid side by side on the ground?

Cheers again all, Mick

Quote:

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Originally posted by MickG+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MickG)</div><div class='quotemain'>

<!--QuoteBegin-Redback
My setup will be the same as Slunnies and Gidget, without the 33s

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Do you mean 4" lift? I would liike to stay with the 2" but am concerned that going softer springs will mean some slight sag or do they make the springs to eventually sit at the desired height - meaning, would a softer spring sit higher than a stiffer one when laid side by side on the ground?

Cheers again all, Mick[/b][/quote]

Yes it's the 4" lift but i think after they settle it will be about 3".

If you want a genuine 50mm and you get OME springs i'd add 20mm spacers to them, but you'll have to extend your ABS & brake lines and you'll need longer shocks too.

And yes if you go to a softer spring they will be taller to get the lift, Brooksie went for a 3" lift with King springs so i would assume that once they settle that would give you what you want, PM him he could help.

Baz.