Faulty TD5 Oil Pump Bolt - Update

Having just read the six pages of this post, I think there are lessons here for everyone.

Communication seems to be the biggest problem on everyone's behalf in this saga. LRA may have been able to cut this one off at the pass before it turned into a turd sandwich and and many members could have taken a cold shower without knowing all the information which is only privy to the two parties involved.

Personally, I have only ever had great support from LRA, especially on our recent trip around the country. While the dealers may have been indifferent, LRA were fantastic.

By the way Nissan were dragged kicking and screaming on the 3.0TD piston and gearbox issues. Even now there are still people driving around with time-bombs which Nissan Australia will not come to the party on...but that is another thread.

"Without Prejudice"

From what I can gather, this issue was first brought out into the public forum in April 2004. See this link

http://www.landyonline.co.za/issues/td5_oilpump.htm
http://www.amanet.co.uk/td5oilpumpfailure.htm

The only way to inspect the sprocket bolt is to take the sump off. I do not believe that would be a reasonable thing to do at time of pre purchase, especially as I bought it in Dec 2002, when this problem had not surfaced. It was obviously bad enough for the BBC to run a program on it in the UK. Does LR in th UK talk to LR in AU about such things? Who knows?

Unless there was a problem with the oil pump, there would be no need to access/inspect the bolt during the ordinary course of vehicle servicing, as, once again, the sump would have to come off. LR keep a database of LR owners. They had my details. If they had written to me and alerted me to it, I would have gladly paid the cost to have it checked.

The dept of transport & road safety states there would be no recall, as it is not a safety issue.

When this all occurred, nothing was ever received in writing from LR, despite a number of requests on my part. The only corro received was the offer of no assistance. In the end, they would not talk to me. Final conversation - "It's just business".

This all followed on the heels of our first holiday in 2 years. A cheap camping holiday over xmas/new year. I'd saved and bought a purpose built trailer to cart all my camping gear. Thought I had the best truck in the world to tow it. Long service leave was taken for the holiday. New years day, bang, car's dead. Stuck on the side of the road for 3 hours in 45 degree hea...blah blah blah who cares?

$1200+ in tows & mech inspections, only to find out the real reason for the problem....As stated on a previous post, LR UK have settled claims, AFTER this was highlighted on a BBC program, watched probably by millions, and with all the resultant bad publicity no doubt. The problem gets raised by me on this forum, initially under a post relating to "piston failure", post is read by about 1300 people (not sure if that includes repeat visits by the same person/s), and I get wiped.
I think I'm entitled to be a little ticked off....who wouldn't be? My cheap holiday has blown out over $10K.....I'm sure everyone here would be filthy.

Bottom line now is, I'm out $10K, the car's back on the road, sold my soul to the devil to pay for the repairs (I now owe the mother-in-law), and I will be selling the trailer and all the camping gear so I can pay her back some.
To top it all off, the iron caught fire last week, burnt the ironing board and a shirt, and since getting the car back, it's popped a horn button on the steering wheel - that's another $250.....

If nothing else, it has generated some lively debate between members of this forum, but hopefully also alerted others to a potential drama. One thing for sure though, the sun will rise tomorrow - and my missus will still be giving me the silent treatment.

Thanks for all the input and advice guys - every single post is appreciated. Over and out.

PS Three cheers to Purnell Motors - they were great.

I'm so very sorry this has been the outcome, Mick...

But what comes around goes around, and those going around should be very wary;

brown undies you unhelpful uncaring suppliers...karma happens...

GQ

Dear Administrator

After reviewing your comments "What am I missing here..." and making note of your referral to earlier sections of the forum on this topic.

There appears to be some misinterpretation and hopefully I can clarify this by outlining the issue at hand;

Mick S did not at any given time state he "would take it further" after LR provided an offer. The essential point is that LR provided a verbal offer, which was accepted (i.e. LR to pay for a 2nd hand motor, exclusive of labour costs). Mick S then in good faith, organised to have the 2nd hand motor fitted - LR then subsequently retracted their offer.

The point you are missing is that Mick S accepted the offer, with no intent to "take it further".

The fact that he undertook some "research" and armed himself with useful information is the prudent thing to do in a situation like this.

In doing so he should not be prejudiced by these activities, and his comments on this forum have been of a colloquial and general nature and were in no way intended to cause harm or damage to any recipients.

The term 'caveat emptor' has been used by subscribers throughout this topic, however there is another term LR should consider and that is 'quid pro quo' In light of this, LR should now stand by their offer of GOODWILL.

Kind regards

Mrs S

Quote:

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Originally posted by MickS
The point you are missing is that Mick S accepted the offer, with no intent to "take it further".
The fact that he undertook some "research" and armed himself with useful information is the prudent thing to do in a situation like this.

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i am not missing any point, i just called it as i read it, and after you say you agreed to accept LRA's offer you were publicly acknowledging that you were pursuing the matter further, had contacted other arms of LR, and that pretty much shows you had intent to take it further IMHO and in LRA's obviously... acting in good faith is a two way street....

IF it really was this forum that had any influence on the situation at all.

it is pure assumption on your part, in the first place, that it did...

i dont speak for LRA in any way shape or form.... your having yourself on if you think i have any influence.

i was playing the devils advocate as i thought LRA were being harshly treated in that there was only one side of the story being told and the facts appeared to be getting further lost in the mire.

i personally thought their offer to virtually donate you a motor and fitting was extremely generous under the circumstances, but that is just my opinion, and obviously not yours as you were on the prowl for more info...

I phoned the newly created LR dealer in sunny Darwin and described the problem. The response was as expected, phoned LR Sydney and stated that 'they had heard of a few cases'.

I requested a quote and was told about $400 but to be confirmed. The final quote has now gone to over $500...something like this

Gasket: $69
Oil: $68
Labour: $440 (at $110 per hour!!)

All up $577

This may be expensive peace-of-mind but after reading all of the helpful posts it was time to act. Besides I am very happy with my LR and have been with the others over 30 years despite the inevitable teething problems which were always covered under warranty.

Bye

Phil

Quote:

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Originally posted by teedeefive
I phoned the newly created LR dealer in sunny Darwin and described the problem. The response was as expected, phoned LR Sydney and stated that 'they had heard of a few cases'.

I requested a quote and was told about $400 but to be confirmed. The final quote has now gone to over $500...something like this

Gasket: $69
Oil: $68
Labour: $440 (at $110 per hour!!)

All up $577

This may be expensive peace-of-mind but after reading all of the helpful posts it was time to act. Besides I am very happy with my LR and have been with the others over 30 years despite the inevitable teething problems which were always covered under warranty.

Bye

Phil

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Phil,

Please let us know if they actually find/found any loctite on the bolt. This would help those of us who are left wondering what to do with ours.

By the way, what model and year is your LR?

$110 per hour, what a rort!!!
At the most it should be $70 per hour and should not take any competent mechanic more than 2 hours maximum. They should not be charging you for standby time (loctite curing). I have had enough sumps off vehicles and it should not take anymore than about an hour, an hour and a half to undertake something like this. It will cost me about $110 to do mine when the gasket arrives. Will just mean the next oil change is about 1000kms early.
Glad to see you back on the road Mick S, I hope you get something back from LRA. If LRA could not be reasonablly expected to spend millions on a recall they should at least have put some away and expected to replace the damaged engines or at a minimum advise people to have it checked.
This is a sad sad issue and shows a significant lack of customer care. Fortuanately I have not seen this side of LRA yet, but have with a couple of other manufacturers.
Ultimately these big companies rely on the average person not being able to afford to pursue the matter.
LRAs position is undefensible and I can not understand some people sticking up from them without alternate agendas. The offer was made and should have been left at that. Mick is entitled as is everyone else to find out as much info as possible to help him out and LRA were unreasonable withdrawing their offer after making it.
I love my LRs, even their dodgy workmanship which becomes more apparent the more work I do on them, with nearly all aspects requiring some mods due to poor workmanship. One major incident like Micks and I would not buy another out of principal. Not the fact of the motor self destructing because of dodgy workmanship (and of this there is no doubt) but because of their lack of support for what was an inferior product.
$3k to fit an engine what a joke. An engine transplant should not take a workshop with qualfied and trained LR mechanics more than a day max.

My Defender is a 99 year model and has covered about 65k mostly 'off-road'.

I'll post once the job is done.

Yes, it is a rort, I get work done on aircraft cheaper than the price quoted...

Bye for now.

Just to let you know:
Book time for the TD5 sump R&R is 1.90hrs.

I don't know how they can justify 4.00hrs for this job.

Oh, and $110/hr is about the going dealership rate - even more in Sydney if you include GST :oops: .