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Thread: Conversion Cummins ISF 3.8 (or 2.8)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don 130 View Post
    I'm watching this thread closely, so what manual gearbox would you put behind it considering a TDI 300 is said to be able to destroy an R380 if you tow in 5th at highway speeds. I like my engine braking, and gears, better fuel economy and better get up and go.
    Don.
    Isuzu msa or mxa would be my choice because kits are available. Bit then you may as well fit an isuzu as wellConversion Cummins ISF 3.8 (or 2.8)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don 130 View Post
    I'm watching this thread closely, so what manual gearbox would you put behind it considering a TDI 300 is said to be able to destroy an R380 if you tow in 5th at highway speeds.
    Don.
    The ISF2.8 in the Foton Tunland is a 5sp manual Getrag box (MT82 is a getrag design) and in the Foton light truck they use a ZF 5sp manual option. The ISF2.8 is 360nm on par with the Puma so an MT82 behind an ISF2.8 should hold up just fine (bolting them together might be thought provoking). There is talk of a ZF auto option. Depending which model ZF auto it might possible to match the bell housing off the truck ZF to say a 6hp26 which there are kits for the LT230.

    In the US you can buy NV3500 and NV4500 kits that bolt to the LT230. The conversions i read about in the US used the ISF2.8 and NV3500 (into a wrangler). The NV3500 is out of a TJ wrangler. The NV3500 gearing a marginally taller than the R380 but not enough to be noticeable.

    If you wanted MT82 esk ratios and ease of kit availability the MSA and MXA has boxes that will match those ratios.

    I don't think the box is your limitation for this engine.

  3. #43
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    I think the ZF behind the Foton truck ISF3.8 is the ZF S5-42. Similar ratios to the MT82 (but short a gear).

    https://web.archive.org/web/20140606...103/s_5_42.pdf


    There is potentially a ZF S5-42 to LT230 kit out there. I did a quick google search and couldn't verify the company or product. For information only

    For sale CUMMINS / ZF S5 42 to LT 230 conversion kits | Cummins Land Rover Group Technical Archive

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    I'm leaning towards the 3.8isf when my 2.2 dies along with a 6l90e. Ratios are good (1st isn't as low as mt82 but a taller 6th so could drop diff gearing). There is a kit to go from isf2.8 to 6l90e in the states and I'm guessing it should work for the 3.8.

    Marks adapters does a 6l90e to lt230 kit. Controlling the gearbox might need a stand alone computer. Although a manual might be simpler.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Isuzu msa or mxa would be my choice because kits are available. Bit then you may as well fit an isuzu as wellConversion Cummins ISF 3.8 (or 2.8)
    I put over 200,000 km towing 1.9t dual axle tool trailer on a R380 behind a 300Tdi, then HS 2.8 TGV. Thats towing alone. probably about 300k all up. I pulled it cause the gear changes were getting sticky. That box NEVER gave problems. I always used 5th on the HWY. The later suffix boxes are the go and cant go wrong with the Ashcroft HD 5th gear bearing upgrade.

    Not saying its the best box for this application, but they arent crap either

  6. #46
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    someone has done a ISF2.8 to 6L80e in a D90.

    R2.8 / R3.8 Builds -

    Forums

    6l80e install/info -

    Forums


    Someone else bolted the ISF2.8 to the R380.

    First Defender build on the road.... -

    Forums


    Not much info on both but it's a path trodden.

    The R2.8 looks a tight fit and that engine is smaller than a Puma engine. The ISF3.8 is 130mm longer than the Puma, same width, 30mm taller (90kg heavier dry). Comparing to the Ranger 3.2: from experience the extra cylinder of the 3.2 at factory engine mount location the front of the engine fouled the Puma bonnet. It might be a similar problem with the ISF3.8. Dropping the engine an inch or so might be part of the conversion (assuming the engine mounts line up).

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    Advanced Adapters sell adaptors for the iSF2.8 to the NV3350 and AX15 manual and for the 6L80/90. AFAIK the 2.8 and 3.8 share common engine bolt pattern. The NV3350 and AX15 won’t handle the 3.8 but you would use the NV4500 from a dodge with the Cummins 5.9 adaptor

    712593-A : CUMMINS 2.8L TO JEEP 6CYL. DRIVETRAIN | Advance Adapters

    712594-A : CUMMINS 2.8L TO GM LS (GEN lll &lV) TRANSMISSIONS | Advance Adapters

    Plenty of adaptors for a Cummins 5.9 (SAE3) to a ZF S6-650 but can’t find a ZF to LT230 adaptor.

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    This might just be a matter of a big old hunk of metal and the correct bolt patterns drilled and counter sunk on 1 side. Or is it more complex?
    -Mitch
    'El Burro' 2012 Defender 90.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger View Post
    This might just be a matter of a big old hunk of metal and the correct bolt patterns drilled and counter sunk on 1 side. Or is it more complex?
    From my reading the ISF engine housing is deeper than the 4BT and 6BT range therefore there is not a direct bolt up solution from the existing BT adaptor range. The solution put forward by Advanced adaptors has a spacer between the OEM flywheel for the starter and a secondary flywheel & pressure plate for the clutch. The commentary says that the OEM clutch/slave for the Jeep boxes and torque converter for the GM box is retained. If you have access to the tooling, patience and knowledge it would be easy to replicate. For someone like me that relies on a machine shop and expertise of another, the cost of multiple trial and errors would soon add up and the kit would be cost effective to get it right the first time. Especially if the clutch set up needs tweaking and your supplier won't swap out the incorrect for the next attempt.

    Cummins commissioned 4 conversions. There was an 80 series LC, a D1 and 2 others that escape me and Bruiser do a 2.8 into the Jeep. I assume this kit was part of that experiment.

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    Further digging relying on pictures on Alibaba. The crate engine in both 2.8 and 3.8 appears to have a deep flywheel housing and the flywheel is recessed (visually). It appears to be designed to accomodate the depth of the starter. A search for a Foton flywheel housing comes up with a shallow flywheel housing and the pics show the flywheel is near flush with the outside lip of the housing. The starter protrudes beyond the housing on this version. For the cost of a housing from China it might be an easier way to marry a box to the engine. Does way with the spacer from the Advanced adapter kit. If that housing is the same depth as the BT range it opens up options to use adaptor kits and clutches that bolt a variety of boxes to the Cummins 5.9 which are cheaper than the kit i linked below.

    FYI - the Foton (ISF3.8) mid size truck uses the ZF 5S-420 (which is similar to the S5-42 descriptor found behind the DAF trucks). The ratios are different and not too dissimilar to the MT82 ratios (short 1 gear). Given that Foton manufactures in China it is likely to be a different box.

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