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Thread: LiFePO4 or Lead Crystal to replace AGM?

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    LiFePO4 or Lead Crystal to replace AGM?

    After 3 years of abuse., the 2 120Ah AGM batteries in my van are showing signs of surrender.
    I had always intended at some stage to go with Lithium but now there are Lead Crystal batteries muddying the water.

    While it is fairly clear that Lithium batteries maintain their voltage at above 12V while being discharged all the way down to 20% SOC or thereabouts, I can't seem to find the same information about Lead Crystal. Does anyone have a comparison or can you point me on the right direction?
    Apart from the price, weight differences & green credentials, there does not seem to be much difference between the 2.

    Has anyone had experience with both batteries that can tell me which battery system they would choose without factoring the cost into the equation.

    I don't have an integrated electrical system in my van, all charging methods are stand alone & can be connected individually or together as required. (KISS) principle. Solar can provide around 20 amps & then the D4 sends who knows how much down a 25mm2 cable to the van batteries when travelling. I have a stand alone Victron 15A battery charger for other occasions if needed.

    I intend installing an inverter big enough to run the microwave for a few minutes at a time so would need the batteries to manage an 80 amp draw without the voltage collapsing below 12V for those few minutes.


    Thanks in advance.
    + 2016 D4 TDV6

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    DiscoMick Guest
    I have read claims that LifePOs can be discharged right down without damage, but is that true?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    I have read claims that LifePOs can be discharged right down without damage, but is that true?
    Most species of Lithium rechargeable battery are supplied with battery management systems (BMS) to prevent that sort of damage. It is not that you can't damage a cell by discharging it too deeply (you will), it's that the battery pack as is protected against deep discharge and overcharge by electronic wizardry.

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    These lithium batteries are way too expensive at the moment So even if they are a better option they are way above my pay grade
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    Quote Originally Posted by trout1105 View Post
    These lithium batteries are way too expensive at the moment So even if they are a better option they are way above my pay grade
    If you look at what you can do with a lithium battery, they make a lot of sense but you do need the dollars up front. I currently run 2 x Fullriver 100Ah batteries - these retail for around $400 each. Given that 1 x 100Ah lithium can do the same job as these and give me a weight saving of about 45Kg all up, the around $1,300 for one makes a lot of sense. Also the charge/discharge cycles is a heap more, so actually it's on a par with good quality AGM's over all. There is then a different charger required too, so an extra expense there as well but I'm seriously considering one for my van, but yet to take the plunge.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    I currently run 2 x Fullriver 100Ah batteries - Given that 1 x 100Ah lithium can do the same job as these
    Hi Homestar, be very careful of the claims being made about how much better lithium batteries are over lead batteries.

    For instance, if you use no more than 4o% of your current 2 Fullriver batteries capacity, then a 100Ah lithium will be fine.

    But if you use 50% or more, then you need a bigger lithium battery.

    Again, for instance, if you set up camp for a few days and use 80% of your Fullriver battery capacity, you will need 200Ah of lithium to replace that.

    But if you were planning to replace the 200Ah of Fullriver batteries with Lead Crystal batteries, you only need 160Ah of Lead Crystal batteries and depending on how you use them, you will still have more available capacity from the 160Ah of Lead Crystal batteries then you would from 200Ah of Fullriver or 200Ah of Lithium.

    Again, it all depends on how you are going to use that type of battery capacity.

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    I am quite happy to wait until these lithium batteries stop being "Trendy" and wait for the inevitable price drop.
    Just like everything else that comes out as a new thing these will eventually become affordable over time
    You only get one shot at life, Aim well

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    Thanks guys for the replies.
    Drivesafe, I was rather hoping you would reply but my biggest question is still unanswered.

    If a Lithium battery maintains it's voltage above 12V for the majority vast of the time while being discharged, what does a Lead Crystal do? I can't seem to find a discharge Voltage curve for Lead Crystal. I am interested in comparing the capacities of batteries while their voltage is above 12V.
    + 2016 D4 TDV6

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    Quote Originally Posted by drivesafe View Post
    Hi Homestar, be very careful of the claims being made about how much better lithium batteries are over lead batteries.

    For instance, if you use no more than 4o% of your current 2 Fullriver batteries capacity, then a 100Ah lithium will be fine.

    But if you use 50% or more, then you need a bigger lithium battery.

    Again, for instance, if you set up camp for a few days and use 80% of your Fullriver battery capacity, you will need 200Ah of lithium to replace that.

    But if you were planning to replace the 200Ah of Fullriver batteries with Lead Crystal batteries, you only need 160Ah of Lead Crystal batteries and depending on how you use them, you will still have more available capacity from the 160Ah of Lead Crystal batteries then you would from 200Ah of Fullriver or 200Ah of Lithium.

    Again, it all depends on how you are going to use that type of battery capacity.
    Thanks, some good points as always. I've never had the Fullrivers below around 12.2 at almost any stage (usually they stay above 12.5 as I only generally use a couple of 4 watt LED globes for a couple of hours plus a bit of TV) - I think one hot night running 2 fans through the inverter they cane down to about 12.0 (I can't ever remember them being under 12.0) but in general I look after them very well and try not to get them below 60% when I can - I don't actually need much power at all, but at times if I know I've go ts plenty I'll use a bit more - have the telly on longer, etc. I've got 300 watts of solar panels that do a pretty good job of getting them topped up each day as well, it's rare for them not to get back to 100% during the day, but at times they don't make it and then I get a bit paranoid about using power the next night.

    I've been out for 8 nights straight and packed up at the end with full batteries so I'm not hard on them by any means.

    I think 1 x 100Ah lithium would do me fine but as I said, yet to make the jump.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

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