Thread: 'Flushing oil concentrate' - snake oil?

Originally Posted by martnH

Make sense.thanks for your commmt Rick

I was busy studying and doing exams. So my defender only did 4k kms...Last year...Mostly grocery runs where the engine did not even warm up...
I do change the oil plus filter every 12 months....

And that's why I am thinking of trying the oil flushes...

But I think what I will do is to simply change oil every 6 months because the repeated short runs...

Sensible decision. Your use is what would be considered arduous.

Originally Posted by Mercguy

I have a a rolling update thread on this. all you have to do to find it is use the search function in the RRC board.

If it was snake oil I would have certainly said so. It is anything but from my experience. The product does exactly what it says, and no bull.

My guess is the discourse surrounding each individuals results are always going to be proportional to the relative IQ of the person using it, their mechanical knowledge, experience and perhaps even their sometimes delusional or unrealistic expectations.
There will always be an optimist, a pessimist and a pragmatist.

It's not a one-time wonder treatment.
Nothing is, if you want a one-time fix, pull the engine and hot tank it..

If you use the product correctly, in a manner that befits your vehicles condition and useage, then it does exactly what it says.
In 2 oil changes it has softened the hard carbon deposits in my 3.9 to the point where I could simply wipe the valvetrain with a microfibre cloth and it wiped spotlessly clean.

Previously I had to use a wire wheel on a drill to loosen the hard carbon deposits, a huge time consuming effort and that was not even 100% effective at removal.

I've spent more on other products and achieved far less (or sometimes nothing) for more outlay in the past.
I've got nothing negative to say about the CEM product and I am continuing to use it in a low-dose permanent additive.
In my case, the oil remained extremely clean after the initial shock treatment flush for a very long time, but by the second oilchange it was looking like it used to before I commenced the treatment regime - a very dark brown, with the broken down compounds visible in the oil film.

Have done almost 8000km since last oilchange and the oil is still looking almost as clean as the day it was put in. Previously it would have been filthy in less than half this mileage.

Prior to purchasing, I had quite a lengthy discussion with the CEM product manager about my specific intentions on the use of the product. His response was conservative, and very clear. I was told that the hard carbon would take quite a long while to completely disperse. However, it was softened sufficiently within two routine service oil changes, to allow the remaining residue to simply be wiped clean from the rockers, retainers and springs without effort, which was far sooner than I had anticipated.

imho most of these sorts of products do indeed work but personally I would not put an additive into the oil on a permanent basis. The reason for this is that it changes the properties of the oil and could most likely change the strength of the oil film which is what separates the steel in a bearing for example. I have no problem using the (in my case) wynns additive as described, letting it run on idle in an engine for 20 minutes and then drive it inside onto the hoist (very little to no load on the engine) but more than that is pushing it. I do wait for the engine to cool down a bit before I can touch the hot oil which thus far has not had a noticeable effect but this is against the manufacturers advice.

Also, engine oil looking very clean after a significant amount of use is not necessarily a good thing, a good oil should encapsulate the dirt particles and suspend them in the oil. When your oil is dirty, your engine is "clean". This of course only works up to a certain point and this is why I replace my oil when it starts to look dirty. Naturally, there are engines which are a lot cleaner than others. A diesel vs petrol is a very noticeable difference but one petrol engine is not like the another. My honda engine's (90's tech) usually have slightly discolored engine oil after 10k whilst my rover V8 (60's tech) is pretty dark at around 5k.

I recon that when your oil turned dirty the cleaning properties of the additives in your engine oil did their job and very slowly cleaned the engine I think one can expect to see that kind of behaviour untill the engine is as clean as it can get, it reaches equilibrium.

In any case, I would be hesitant to recommend using an oil additive on a permanent basis for these reasons and do the "dirty work" by using a product such as this by the time you are going to change the oil anyway. If you feel the oil is too dark already, buy a can of the cheapest oil you can find, drop the old oil, keep the filter, refill with the cheap oil, throw in the additive and run it as prescribed and then drop the oil and change the filter

Cheers,
-P

Originally Posted by prelude

imho most of these sorts of products do indeed work but personally I would not put an additive into the oil on a permanent basis. The reason for this is that it changes the properties of the oil and could most likely change the strength of the oil film which is what separates the steel in a bearing for example. I have no problem using the (in my case) wynns additive as described, letting it run on idle in an engine for 20 minutes and then drive it inside onto the hoist (very little to no load on the engine) but more than that is pushing it. I do wait for the engine to cool down a bit before I can touch the hot oil which thus far has not had a noticeable effect but this is against the manufacturers advice.

Also, engine oil looking very clean after a significant amount of use is not necessarily a good thing, a good oil should encapsulate the dirt particles and suspend them in the oil. When your oil is dirty, your engine is "clean". This of course only works up to a certain point and this is why I replace my oil when it starts to look dirty. Naturally, there are engines which are a lot cleaner than others. A diesel vs petrol is a very noticeable difference but one petrol engine is not like the another. My honda engine's (90's tech) usually have slightly discolored engine oil after 10k whilst my rover V8 (60's tech) is pretty dark at around 5k.

I recon that when your oil turned dirty the cleaning properties of the additives in your engine oil did their job and very slowly cleaned the engine I think one can expect to see that kind of behaviour untill the engine is as clean as it can get, it reaches equilibrium.

In any case, I would be hesitant to recommend using an oil additive on a permanent basis for these reasons and do the "dirty work" by using a product such as this by the time you are going to change the oil anyway. If you feel the oil is too dark already, buy a can of the cheapest oil you can find, drop the old oil, keep the filter, refill with the cheap oil, throw in the additive and run it as prescribed and then drop the oil and change the filter

Cheers,
-P

If you read my thread, then you'll know exactly what the state of the engine is in. The additive used is also suitable and recommended for continuous use in a reduced volume, and I had an extensive discourse with the technical product manager prior to embarking on my test.

before jumping to conclusions about my statement, please take some time to read the thread and understand the context in which the product is used..

Yes, I'm sorry I missed the part about it beeing suitable to be used permanently. I do still wonder what the effects of this are in terms of oil film resistance, however I digress.

I was not trying to jump to conclusions I am only concerned. If I understand you correctly you get a less dirty engine oil with the additive and without the engine oil is dirtier? From that perspective I see that as a undesireable thing as a mentioned before.

-P

Originally Posted by prelude

Yes, I'm sorry I missed the part about it beeing suitable to be used permanently. I do still wonder what the effects of this are in terms of oil film resistance, however I digress.

I was not trying to jump to conclusions I am only concerned. If I understand you correctly you get a less dirty engine oil with the additive and without the engine oil is dirtier? From that perspective I see that as a undesireable thing as a mentioned before.

-P

No, that is not the case, the oil gets dirty... Please read the thread discourse in the Classic Range rover section The RRC "Cost Effective Maintenance" thread

Originally Posted by Mercguy

If you read my thread, then you'll know exactly what the state of the engine is in. The additive used is also suitable and recommended for continuous use in a reduced volume, and I had an extensive discourse with the technical product manager prior to embarking on my test.

before jumping to conclusions about my statement, please take some time to read the thread and understand the context in which the product is used..

Not knowing what CEM use as their active I'd be a little averse to using it on a continuous basis, I'd be more inclined to use a full on CI-4+/CJ-4 or an ACEA E6/E9 diesel oil.

Originally Posted by Mercguy

and the oil is still looking almost as clean as the day it was put in.

to me, this means the oil isnt doing its job.