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Thread: Genuine Facet Electric Fuel Pump Failure - New Fuel Issues?

  1. #11
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee utey View Post
    I've only mounted these pumps horizontally, seemed to be the most logical. You could definitely mount the pump lower, if any risk of damage exists just fab a protective guard for it. Rubber mounts are good too, prevents waking up half the neighbourhood when they start up. Example:

    FACET FUEL PUMP FITTING KIT MOUNTS RUBBER INSULATORS & EARTH STRAP MLR.FI | eBay
    Hello Bee Utey,

    Thanks for the reply. I used the same rubber mounts that the Army used. Turns out they are Defender rubber mount for part of the air cleaner. I will try the oil in the inlet to see how that goes. Otherwise I will be following your suggestion of lowering the pump and having it horizontal.

    I followed the cylinder type pump's vertical arrangement of the original Bendix cylinder pump that was used in the 2.6 litre Series 3 Land Rover 109s. The original pump is still in place next to the fuel tank - although it was disconnected when the previous owner fitted the 202 Holden motor to the vehicle. The new position of the cube pump is actually lower than the original Bendix pump was.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  2. #12
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Moss Motors Installation

    Hello All,

    There was nothing on TV, so I went on the hunt for some information about how to fit the Facet Cube style pump. I found a site from the California in the USA by a company called Moss Motors. Their "About" section describes how:

    Since its start in 1948, and still today, Moss Motors is a company run by enthusiasts for enthusiasts. Our customers drive and maintain vehicles that reflect golden days of British motoring and sports cars, and many of these dedicated individuals have been our customers for decades.

    In relation to the Facet Cube pump, Moss Motors suggests that: to avoid priming problems, do not mount the fuel pump more than 30.5 cm above the bottom level of the fuel tank. If the pump is even or below the bottom of the fuel tank, it will be easier to prime.

    NOTE:
    It is recommended that the outlet of the pump be at least 45 degrees above horizontal. This will allow any vapour build-up to easily pass through the pump (accessed 10th January 2019 from, https://mossmotors.com/media/instruc...0_inst_web.pdf).

    Later in the installation instructions it describes how to prime the pump.

    Kind regards
    Lionel
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  3. #13
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Facet Manufacturer Installation

    Hello All,

    I just tracked down the Facet Fuel Pump manufacturer and under their Frequently Asked Questions section they describe how the following:

    How should the Facet® universal pumps be mounted?

    The fuel pump should be mounted with the outlet above the inlet. This will help with eliminate vapor lock issues. Never located the pump so the outlet is below the inlet. Horizontal mounting will not effect fuel delivery performance (accessed January 10, 2019 from, FAQ – Facet-Purolator)

    Well the weekend is fast approaching so I will follow the advice of pumping some oil into the inlet and have a go at the Moss Motors' and Facet's directions of somewhere within 45 degrees difference between outlet and inlet.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  4. #14
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    My Series I has a pair of Facets mounted under the bonnet on the inner wing. One for the standard tank and one for a tank under the rear tub.
    Much higher than recommended but have worked OK for the last 10 years and were fitted when I acquired the vehicle.

    Outlet & inlet are roughly on the same level.
    Only problem I've had is the non-return valve on one leaks so as you pump from the rear tank the front tank gets topped up.

    Colin
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  5. #15
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Inline Primer Bulb

    Hello All,

    It might be overkill - however... I am going to a boat place tomorrow to find out if they have any of the inline primer bulbs in stock. These type have a one-way or non-return valve fitted. I located an inline fuel filter on the mounting "T" bracket where the Bendix cylinder electric fuel pump was originally fitted. I will attach the inline primer bulb after the filter.

    If not I will be eBaying to get a couple of them.

    Each time the fuel pumps have been left idle for a couple of months the fuel line drains back into the tank. The line will also need to be re-primed each time the inline fuel filter is replaced.

    Fingers crossed that there is a boat place open tomorrow - Sunday.

    Kind regards
    Lionel
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  6. #16
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Reply from FACET

    Hello All,

    I sent an email to the manufacturers of Facet pumps in the US of A, about the positioning of the "cube" style pump. Within half an hour I received the following reply...

    Any positive angle with the outlet pointing up towards the sky is OK. 45 degrees is the norm but anything will work.

    The reply was from their National Sales Manager...Mr Paul Puleo it is hard to beat that kind of service!

    Looking at the Facet website, I also found that there is authorised Facet dealer here at the local branch of Ashdown-Ingram.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

  7. #17
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    trout1105 is online now YarnMaster Silver Subscriber
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    I like your primer pump idea, It cant hurt to try
    You only get one shot at life, Aim well

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  8. #18
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Inline Primer Bulb

    Hello All,

    Not long after I got back from the boat place with an inline bulb primer in hand, I had it installed. I also went to the other end of the fuel line and I unhooked the fuel line from the carburettor. I pumped the primer bulb until I had fuel coming through the pump and out of the fuel line near the carburettor.

    I stopped squeezing the bulb and I turned the fuel switch on. The Facet pump proceeded to work away nice and quietly. Plus, when I checked, I had a nice steady gusher of fuel coming out all over the engine. No, not a desirable thing you want to happen most of the time. However, I was really happy to see it today.

    After tracing an issue with the accelerator cable I had the engine ticking over again - Success

    Positioning: I tried it with the inline primer bulb first without changing the location of the Facet pump. It worked so I will keep it there for the meanwhile.

    The one way or non-return valve in the bulb primer pump should stop the fuel from draining back into the fuel tank.

    The System: It looks like the Facet pump needs to be treated like the main diesel pump for a diesel engine. Make sure there is no air in the system and it has a nice steady flow of fuel to the pump. Otherwise the pump will simply not work.

    Here are a couple of photographs of how I initially arranged things. I will place some cut up tractor inner tube around the fuel filter and cable tie it to the hand brake mount. The filter was previously fixed to the mounting point of the old Bendix cylinder fuel pump. However I had to reposition the filter closer to the handbrake mount so I could fit the inline bulb primer into the system.

    One step forward: Now to sort out the accelerator cable issue. The cable is slipping through the Dellorto Throttle Linkage Wheel instead of actually making the bracket pull down to open up the throttle. It did not do that before!

    At least by physically moving the Dellorto linkage, while my wife turned the ignition key, I got the engine started and running.

    That was my task achieved for the weekend: getting the engine started again.

    Future Plans: A task for the future is to make up a temporary jig with a switch-board accessible inside the engine-bay that can be turned on while standing next to the engine.

    Kind regards
    Lionel
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  9. #19
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Accelerator Cable

    Hello All,

    I just adjusted the accelerator cable. The accelerator arrangement in Rebus is a hybrid between the Land Rover Series parts and Holden parts; along with the odd engine fitter's own manufactured hybrid parts. Plus a right-hand Dellorto Throttle Linkage Wheel on the Stromberg carburettor. I bought Rebus already fitted with a 202 Holden red motor fitted to it.

    The original Land Rover accelerator pedal is maintained. So too is the first linkage on the bulkhead's engine bay side. From the first linkage a couple bolts, nuts and angle-iron brackets have been fabricated up. The bolts and nuts are brazed to form an anchorage point for a fabricated cable pinch. The cable cover and internal cable then travel up over the engine and finish at a welded cable end that attached to the Dellorto Throttle Linkage Wheel.

    Currently there is no adjustment on the cable - apart from hit and miss process.

    A wire, or length of rope, has to be secured between the accelerator pedal and the steering wheel so that the accelerator pedal is high as it can go. The pinch-bolt's which is held within the first Land Rover accelerator linkage has the pinch-bolt's nut loosened off. The cable that goes through to the Dellorto Throttle Linkage Wheel is then pulled back towards the bulkhead. In the meantime the pinch bolt's nut is tightened up.

    The tension on the cable is either one of three things: 1) too tight and the engine revs up way above idle; 2) not tight enough and the engine has insufficient carburettor opening to allow it to start. 3) the tension on the cable is just right. The engine starts and purrs like a kitten.

    So far I have only been able to achieve options 1 and 2.

    I did buy a couple of motor cycle brake cable adjusters with locking nuts, as per the photograph. I hope to use these parts so that I can gain some adjustment to the cable. To be able use the cable adjusters I will have to buy a bigger bolt and then drill a hole through it. Then I will cut a thread into the bolt so that the hand cable adjuster can be fitted. Hopefully this will give me the necessary adjustment to refine the accelerator controls so the engine will be easier to start.

    Kind regards
    Lionel
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  10. #20
    Lionelgee is offline ChatterBox Silver Subscriber
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    Funny How Things Work Out

    Hello All,

    Once upon a time - when I first bought Rebus it was hard to start. The problem was traced back to the original Holden mechanical fuel pump. It was in need of a full refurbishment - a thorough clean and a replacement parts kit put through it. Or a new mechanical pump without the glass bowl. When I bought Rebus it had a Holden 202 red motor fitted.

    This route was going to be expensive.

    The Land Rover Series 3 which came out with a 2.6 litre six cylinder motor had an electric fuel pump originally fitted to it. This Bendix cylinder pump was still fitted. However, it was bypassed. The old Bendix pump had seen better days. However, it was less expensive to replace than buying a new Holden mechanical pump.

    Two electrical pumps, a blanking plate to cover the old mechanical fuel pump, a larger fuel filter, an inline bulb fuel primer, various new lengths and colours of auto electrical wire, switches, and connectors, a Holley pressure reducer later. A fair amount of petrol wasted as well.

    With the benefit of hindsight it would have been a lot cheaper to just buy the new replacement Holden mechanical fuel pump!

    Let this be a cautionary tale to those with an Holden mechanical fuel pump fitted. Just either buy an overhaul kit; or buy a new replacement pump. It will work out less expensive in the end.

    Kind regards
    Lionel

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