Mann Hummel Provent 200 filter replacement, cleaning and after market options

Interesting read and I feel the need to throw my comments into the mix.

Firstly, before purchasing the ProVent 200 I looked into whether the smaller variants would be suitable as they physically would be much easier to mount in place in the D2 Td5 engine bay. Every piece of literature and guide I could find from the manufacturer concluded that the 200 was the smallest suitable for the Td5 engine and that was at stock standard power levels! Regardless of what the sellers are claiming it’s undersized for this application according to the manufacturer who actually did all the testing and development and so who should actually have knowledge (perhaps the reason why the sellers are giving you such bad advise is because they’re the type of sellers will to sell a rip off knock off product so don’t have any integrity themselves anyhow). So I have to agree with Tombie that you’ve fitted an undersized option. I’d therefore suggest that any issues you have with yours can’t be concluded to be the fault of the actual Mann Hummel design due to an undersized unit fitted in this application.

Secondly, you’ve purchased a knock off unit, not a genuine product. Any complications and issues your having are potentially because of this. I would imagine the quality control, materials and tolerances to be inferior. The specs for a genuine unit are not nearly applicable or relevant to yours - who knows. Aside from the fact that your supporting organisations/manufacturers that are blatantly ripping off the original product designers that put their time, effort and money in to its development. I’d therefore suggest that any issues you have with yours can’t be concluded to be the fault of the actual Mann Hummel design due to being a knock off unit.

Finally, you’ve made two big claims about the setups and how it should be in relation to the PCV/DCV that are polar to each other. You then went and pulled out the lids by pass valve, which as can be seen in the start of this thread with my case comes into effect when the filter is blocked up and not flowing, so is a good and necessary item to have. I’m not convinced that you have a true and accurate understanding of how it all operates together.
One of the big differences that you don’t seem to have noticed is that seperate to the Pressure Control Valve in the units lid (see item 1 in diagrams of 100, 150 and 200 units on pages 5 and 6 of https://oe-products.mann-hummel.com/...ProVent_en.pdf ), Mann Hummel describe the 100 and 150 as having a “Pressure relief valve/bypass valve” (see item 4 in diagrams of 100 and 150 on pages 5 and 6 of https://oe-products.mann-hummel.com/...ProVent_en.pdf ) vs the 200 which they list as having a “Pressure control valve” 9ref item 11 of the diagram of the 200 on the same pages 5 and 6 of https://oe-products.mann-hummel.com/...ProVent_en.pdf ). There’s key differences in that wording and as the labels are in the same description legend it shows a careful decision by Mann Hummel in differing the wording - presumably due to a different way of functioning.
Personally I’ve found through my use over 30,000km of a correctly sized genuine Mann Hummel 200 unit with a brass elbow replacing the factory Land Rover valve in the air intake it all operates perfectly well. I’d suggest that leaving the factory valve is unlikely to cause any issues but would possibly cause a minor reduction of times where the crankcase can vent.

If your happy with your setup, then great, but be careful making claims about ProVents or the 200 model that others might come along later and read and be influenced by later when yours is neither a ProVent but a knock off copy of unknown specifications or quality and neither a 200 that is the correct size for the Td5.

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Finally, you’ve made two big claims about the setups and how it should be in relation to the PCV/DCV that are polar to each other. You then went and pulled out the lids by pass valve, which as can be seen in the start of this thread with my case comes into effect when the filter is blocked up and not flowing, so is a good and necessary item to have. I’m not convinced that you have a true and accurate understanding of how it all operates together.

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No Twrx7 you don't seem to understand the Provent 100 specifications.

The Provent 100 and clones thereof are opposite to the 200. The depression valve is in the lid and the bypass valve is on the side of the body.
To be clear .THERE ARE 2 valves. ONE DEPESSION VALVE UNDER THE LID AND BYPASS VALVE IN THE SIDE.

The fact that the bypass valve has never activated suggests to me that the flow is sufficient.

Second, I cannot find anywhere the depression specifications of a Provent 100 or 200. At what manifold depression do they activate compared to the standard depression valve? Is it much higher therefore useless or is it much lower therefore increasing crankcase pressure or what?

Surely the LR fitted and designed valve is correct for the engine.

It seems to me that those who run 2 depression valves or only the Provent valve don't have a clue about what the effect is. So I suggest that perhaps you should do some testing with vacuum gauges etc to see what is really happening.

I am also touched by your concern for Mann Hummel. If they choose to price so high and make a **** design with the 100 which needs some ridiculous plumbing , having the inlet pipe as part of the mount, they deserve all the copies they get. I would have bought a 100 if it had the same inlet and outlet setup as the clones.

Regards Philip A

BTW I have not "taken advice " from Shonky sellers. some of the sellers like Western Filters are filtration specialists , and they do kits for trucks etc and do Provent 100 kits for larger engines than TD5s, where they have invested in engineered bracketry and sell for fabulous sums. I think you can be sure they would soon withdraw the product if they had numerous complaints.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

No Twrx7 you don't seem to understand the Provent 100 specifications.

The Provent 100 and clones thereof are opposite to the 200. The depression valve is in the lid and the bypass valve is on the side of the body.

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I won't get involved in debating the difference or how they work as I don't much care for the ProVent 100 specifications. As outlined above it's undersized for Td5 application therefore it's specifications are irrelevant and don't concern me.

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I am also touched by your concern for Mann Hummel. If they choose to price so high and make a **** design with the 100 which needs some ridiculous plumbing , having the inlet pipe as part of the mount, they deserve all the copies they get. I would have bought a 100 if it had the same inlet and outlet setup as the clones.

BTW I have not "taken advice " from Shonky sellers. some of the sellers like Western Filters are filtration specialists , and they do kits for trucks etc and do Provent 100 kits for larger engines than TD5s, where they have invested in engineered bracketry and sell for fabulous sums. I think you can be sure they would soon withdraw the product if they had numerous complaints.

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I'm not sure what you do for work, or did if your retired, but based on your shared views above I'd assume it wasn't a role where you were rewarded for your original ideas and efforts... I can't say I like your view that if you disagree with the price it's ok to support blatant rip off frauds. The Mann Hummel product is priced accordingly likely due to the research and development costs associated with getting it to the market - when you look at the cost of the replacement filters it shows that the original purchase price is actually not that much more than a filter cost. Compared to other competing brands that have significantly worse performance results despite often equal or higher pricing. Then there's the fact that the company has to offset there financial losses from those that support dodgy rip off products through the sales of their genuine units...

Interesting that you bring Western Filters up as an authority for the use and application of the ProVent 100 on the Td5. Firstly, they only sell genuine Mann Hummel products so wouldn't have recommended a 100 clone at all. Secondly, why would you trust their advise over the actual manufacturers who designed, developed and tested the product and advises that it's undersized. It seems like picking and choosing to achieve your desired result. If your happy with it, best of luck to you.

OK lets agree to disagree.
I am happy as my inlet manifold is quite dry. I have posted photos a couple of months ago.

In any case we are really arguing about something that is really not that important in the running of the engine as long as the EGR is deleted.
Without the catch can you may have to clean the intercooler once every 5 years. It's just such a PITA in a D2 to do that I wanted to avoid it.

Regards PhilipA

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Originally Posted by twr7cx

I won't get involved in debating the difference or how they work as I don't much care for the ProVent 100 specifications. As outlined above it's undersized for Td5 application therefore it's specifications are irrelevant and don't concern me.




I'm not sure what you do for work, or did if your retired, but based on your shared views above I'd assume it wasn't a role where you were rewarded for your original ideas and efforts... I can't say I like your view that if you disagree with the price it's ok to support blatant rip off frauds. The Mann Hummel product is priced accordingly likely due to the research and development costs associated with getting it to the market - when you look at the cost of the replacement filters it shows that the original purchase price is actually not that much more than a filter cost. Compared to other competing brands that have significantly worse performance results despite often equal or higher pricing. Then there's the fact that the company has to offset there financial losses from those that support dodgy rip off products through the sales of their genuine units...

Interesting that you bring Western Filters up as an authority for the use and application of the ProVent 100 on the Td5. Firstly, they only sell genuine Mann Hummel products so wouldn't have recommended a 100 clone at all. Secondly, why would you trust their advise over the actual manufacturers who designed, developed and tested the product and advises that it's undersized. It seems like picking and choosing to achieve your desired result. If your happy with it, best of luck to you.

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Whilst desiring not to fan the flames .... I feel the need to set the record straight. A stock Td5 produces a maximum of 90kw at 4200rpm and the PROVENT 100 that I researched and recently installed is indicated in the Mann Hummel’s own specifications as being suitable for my application ie for engines up to 100kW and nobody drives at the redline 100% of the time.
It is the correct specification for a stock Td5, and M&H clearly say so.
Peace.
NB: I ditched the stock depression valve and substituted a brass elbow so there was full time draw on the crankcase.

Attachment 155621

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Originally Posted by onebob

Whilst desiring not to fan the flames .... I feel the need to set the record straight. A stock Td5 produces a maximum of 90kw at 4200rpm and the PROVENT 100 that I researched and recently installed is indicated in the Mann Hummel’s own specifications as being suitable for my application ie for engines up to 100kW and nobody drives at the redline 100% of the time.
It is the correct specification for a stock Td5, and M&H clearly say so.
Peace.
NB: I ditched the stock depression valve and substituted a brass elbow so there was full time draw on the crankcase.

Attachment 155621

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Bob,

See on the left - Reference value. Not limit.
The line below is far more relevant.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Bob,

See on the left - Reference value. Not limit.
The line below is far more relevant.

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Yes, it’s not a limit. [emoji6] but notice it’s not “undersized” as was suggested in an earlier post.

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Originally Posted by onebob

Yes, it’s not a limit. [emoji6] but notice it’s not “undersized” as was suggested in an earlier post.

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For the blow-by volume it (P100) is undersized..... the Kw rating is worded as very clearly indicative, not Up to. Crankcase flow is the needed measure.

For a Discovery it is even undersize by kW

And for a tuned (any) TD5 it very much so is.

Put in the simplest terms - the Provent 200 is the correct unit for a TD5, especially with a tune. The Provent 100 is completely unsuitable, even for a brand new run-in TD5 with almost zero wear.

This is reality, and will eventually lead to those pesky leaks etc due to crankcase pressure.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

For the blow-by volume it (P100) is undersized..... the Kw rating is worded as very clearly indicative, not Up to. Crankcase flow is the needed measure.

For a Discovery it is even undersize by kW

And for a tuned (any) TD5 it very much so is.

Put in the simplest terms - the Provent 200 is the correct unit for a TD5, especially with a tune. The Provent 100 is completely unsuitable, even for a brand new run-in TD5 with almost zero wear.

This is reality, and will eventually lead to those pesky leaks etc due to crankcase pressure.

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Thanks, all understood, but consider this statement:- “figures quoted in Mann & Hummel’s German produced documents are intended for industrial applications ( the original purpose of the product ) ie stationary engines that run at constant maximum power output and therefore maximum engine blow by. These conditions are not relevant when applied to 4WD vehicles.” [source flashlube products/catch can pro]

My install...
Attachment 155650