Series III Transfer Box problem

Thank you for putting so much detail in your reply JDNSW, but it makes no sense to me (yet). I do have a workshop manual and I'm looking through that to see if I can follow what you said. :huh:

From the point of view of operation though the transfer lever (red knob) should be able to be moved out of high ratio without having to depress the selector rod (yellow knob) and the selector rod pops up.
Also, if memory serves, to select low ratio I should depress the selector rod (which stays down) and then can move the transfer lever to low ratio.

Have I got that right?

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Originally Posted by DiscoDave

Thank you for putting so much detail in your reply JDNSW, but it makes no sense to me (yet). I do have a workshop manual and I'm looking through that to see if I can follow what you said. :huh:

From the point of view of operation though the transfer lever (red knob) should be able to be moved out of high ratio without having to depress the selector rod (yellow knob) and the selector rod pops up.
Also, if memory serves, to select low ratio I should depress the selector rod (which stays down) and then can move the transfer lever to low ratio.

Have I got that right?

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1. You should be able to move the Red lever without touching the yellow knob, regardless of whether the yellow knob is up or down into either neutral or low range. When moved into low range, if the yellow knob is down, it should pop up.

You should not have to push the yellow knob down to move the red knob.

I can sympathise with you not being able to understand my explanation - it took me years to be able to understand it myself! The setup is really quite elegant, in that it allows the front drive to be selected with a single movement without having to worry about the teeth lining up and deselected (but not necessarily disengaged) without having to worry about wind-up. Compare this to the contemporary Jeep or Landcruiser where you have to maintain pressure on the lever while driving to get in or out of front wheel drive.
John

G'day DiscoDave :)

The function of the Yellow Lever is to Select 4 Wheel Drive in High Ratio:) "To engage 4WD High Ratio, Depress YELLOW Knob, To Disengage, move Transfer Lever RED KNOB rearward,then back forward, that will (should) make the YELLOW Lever pop upward,thus disengaging 4WD HIGH RATIO,

The function of the RED knob(TRANSFER LEVER) is to Engage and Disengage HIGH and LOW RATIO, it has 3 positions, Forward= HIGH, Central= Neutral, Rearward=LOW, this lever and ratio selection is totally seperate to the YELLOW Sprung Knob.


The high ratio knob(yellow) connects to a rocker lever,that actuates a "lift pin" mounted in a recess in the front output housing,this pin slips into a hole in the selector shaft, if this pin in not freemoving there is a problem(should be able to be twisted around (Without removing it from the shafthole ) that shaft has a history of seizing up, (later Series 3 boxes have a selector shaft lock stop on them which is a bolt and lock nut on them, this should not have any effect on your current problem,

The only other thing that could be causing this problem is that the Front Transfer Selector Detent Spring & Ball is Seized:mad: that lives under a BRASS hex head plug just to the rear of the Front Output Housing a little ahead of selector cover(steel plate held by 4 screws) remove this plug (Spring Loaded)and lubricate liberally with WD 40 type product:) as the detent ball will rust on into position, that is the best that I can advise,

If you have a Haynes Manual, the Detent Spring Illustration is on Page 80, Chapter 6, Illustration Fig.6.13 C,D,E,

The Front Output Selectors are on Page 93, Chapter 6, Illustration Fig.6.45 A,B,C,D,E,F. and 6.46 also 6.47 and in 6.49 the Pin "A" in the High 4wd Locking pin, :)
hope that helps.

Yikes! Now I'm more confused... I thought it was fixed but if the yellow lever is supposed to engage 4WD (which I had fogotten) then it's still not right.

Here's my situation now after much removal of covers, cleaning,oiling, etc.
With the yellow lever permanently down the red lever will now move between "high range", neutral and "low range". Confirmed this by putting it in gear and turning the front ps wheel (with the freewheeling hubs locked). High and Low ranges attempt to turn the engine, neutral does not. So far so good.
In all situations turning the front wheel also turns the rear wheel, which I realise now means it's stuck in 4WD as JDNSW said earlier.:rolleyes:

I have removed, cleaned and lubricated the yellow lever mechanism and the lift pin that UncleHo referred to - all seems well. The problem (or symptom) arises when the red lever enters neutral from high range. At that stage the yellow lever pops up, but with a little more movement of the red lever the yellow lever pops up further (the lift pin drops right down and becomes fairly hard to lift again) and the red lever becomes immovable. A good thump on the yellow lever will free it but I never had to do this before.

I'll undo the brass plug tomorrow and check out the 'Front Transfer Selector Detent Spring & Ball' - thanks for that suggestion UncleHo. :)

G'day DiscoDave :)

When you shift the Transfer Lever (red) forward and back does the righthand shaft move in the opposite direction by a similar amount ? as that is the front output selector lever shaft, if it is not moving freely, it could well be that the drive dog (gear collar) is stuck in, With the transfer lever in High Range (forward) tap the right shaft, it should move about 1/2 inch (thus disengaging the front drive) :) As with the transfer lever in the forward position all you should have is 2WD only, so if you turn the rear wheel/s the front should not turn, but if you turn the front wheel/s the wheel, front tailshaft will turn but not the G/box or rear wheels:) Try this before starting on the Detent Spring, as as the transfer lever moves forward does the front drive shaft (righthand one) moves rearward:D the pin is what holds the front drive back when in high range, when the lever(yellow) is depressed, it releases the shaft to engage front wheel drive in high range.;)

Let me know how you go :)

Bung-Tiddley
Uncle Ho :)

Thanks for your post UncleHo, I believe the problem is now fixed! :):):)

I did remove the brass hex-head plug (man was it tight!) and checked the 'transfer gear selector shaft plunger - all was free, shiny and lubricated so no worries there. Hmmm....

Part of the problem was my ignorance of terminology - while I was scouring my workshop manual (Pub. AKM3648 Ed.4 from Land Rover Ltd) for information about the Transfer Gearbox I completely overlooked an earlier section on the Front Output Shaft Housing which gave me diagrams of the selector shafts and the "four wheel drive locking dog". Seeing this allowed me to get a much better idea of what was going on and the explanations that had been forthcoming previously began to make sense. It seemed clear the problem had to be associated with the 4WD locking dog so first stop was to check whether it's shaft was movable.
Under about half an inch of black gunk I finally found the bolts to enable me to remove the selector shaft "dust cover" and under all that oily mess I found - rust! :mad:

There was not much rust, thankfully, but enought to prevent the shaft moving. Application of a variety of rust removal techniques (which I'd better not go into as it would probably bring about a public flogging administered by the engineers amongst you :lol:) and lots of penetrating oil got the shaft moving freely and now I have the choice of 2WD or 4WD again! :) The floor is not yet down as I have to fix a problem in the handbrake next, so I'm simulating the operation of the yellow lever but it all looks well.

The dust cover is back on but the manual says to use "Bostik Sealant 772" on the face - is that still available or is there something else I could use?

Many thanks for your help to all those who posted, you guys were right on the money with your diagnosis - it just took me a while to figure out what I was being told. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by DiscoDave

Thanks for your post UncleHo, I believe the problem is now fixed! :):):)

(snip)

The dust cover is back on but the manual says to use "Bostik Sealant 772" on the face - is that still available or is there something else I could use?

Many thanks for your help to all those who posted, you guys were right on the money with your diagnosis - it just took me a while to figure out what I was being told. :rolleyes:

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I don't think it is at all critical - any gasket sealer will do, but remember you will want to get it off again at some time. I suggest you make sure the rods are lubricated before putting the cover on - but that the surfaces you are putting sealer on are not oily.

Glad to hear you figured it out - as I said it took me years to do that, but then I have never had problems with the transfer case shifter gear in almost fifty years of using Series Landrovers.

G'day DiscoDave :)

Glad that you got the problem sorted, the usual method of rust removal on items like that consists of wirebrush, or sand/emery paper or tape ;) as long as it removes the rust scale, the shafts do not have to pass through seals so the shaft faces aren't critical,
I usually lubricate the shafts before reassembly of the cover, I have used Copper-Slip (grease) or Wheel Bearing Grease, a light smear, I have also hand made a gasket for the cover out of a Vita-Brits packet, and used Permatax No 3 (Non-Hardening) gasket sealant, on both sides of it, that has the effect of sealing out dust & crud:)

While you have the floor out it may be worth replacing the flexible hose for the Clutch hydraulics, it has a habit of collapsing internally and blocking, giving the feel of a solid or near solid pedal, the Gen Part No is/was RTC 9540, superseeded to use RTC 3353, this is also the LWB rear flexible brake hose it is available from Landrovers.com.au in Melbourne for $24.20 ea, it may be worth changing while the floor is out;)

Only to happy to be of help :D

Bung-Tiddley.

Uncle Ho (Kevin)

While you have the floor out, you might consider replacing the fasteners as necessary - you'll probably be taking it in and out quite a bit! The problem fasteners are usually the ones at the front of the driver's and passenger's floor with captive nuts - these usually seize and then the nuts spin in their housing.
On mine I have replaced one side with bolts and nuts, the other I have fitted speednuts for screws like on the back and transmission tunnel sides. Use antiseize compound on all threads. In addition I have got some self adhesive neoprene foam tape from Clark Rubber (thinnest they have) and applied it in the joints to keep the dust out.
John

G'day JDNSW :)

Isn't it nice to be able to pass on the wisdom of hard earned, hard cursed, knuckles skinned, experience:D :eek: I can still remember having to drill out all of the screws in the front of those floor panels, rusted from the previous owner's perchant for beach driving, and never washing out the vehicle :rolleyes: got about 3/4 of a plastic bucket of Sand out of the Left Chassis Rail :eek: the Motor didn't blow smoke, just fumed !!! head off, sump off, 4 pistons + 36 pieces of rings:eek: and not a score on the bore, gotta love those 2.25 ltre 7:1 compression motors:)
No Electronics:D usually no ELECTRICS :confused: but the wiring diagragms are easy to follow.

Bung-Tiddley:)