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Thread: Auxillary battery charging question.

  1. #11
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    Hi Mate, any chance you could let me no what part number or vehicle the patrol one is off thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Bazzle, i used a traxide usi160 and 3 optima d34 batteries, plus a 105ah agm in the camper with my 4bd1 set up and 70amp patrol alternator, never had an issue. You can get bigger alternators if you desire for patrols that you could use.

  2. #12
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    Out of curiosity:
    I wouldn't have thought that the difference in output of the alternator is the issue here, unless your Enerdrive DC-DC allows more than 70A output.

    That is, irrespective of whether you have a 70 or 100A alternator, the DC-DC charger will only output to the Aux battery whatever the max rating it says it does(eg. 25A or 40A, or whatever model you have)

    Quick look at Enerdrive's products shows a 30A and a 40A.
    So like Tim posted, a DBS that gives power directly via the alternator would be a better investment, if any changes are to be made to your setup.
    Adding a 100A alternator over a 70A alternator still only gives you max current capacity of the DC-DC charger(ie. either only 30A or 40A).
    And having a solar setup to charge whilst your driving along won't help either. Again, the DC-DC is limited to it's maximum capacity.
    So if it's getting power via the alternator already(at it's maximum), then the solar array won't add any more to the Aux battery.

    Only possible caveat with that is that it may be set so that it prefers solar power over DC power, so it could draw (eg. 10 Amps via the solar) and the other 20 or 30 amps could come from the alternator to keep it maxed out.
    Don't know anything about the DC-DC charger you have, so can't be accurate with it's operation.

    Maybe reply with the model of DC-DC charger you currently have.

    On the topic of the 70A alternator and charging the lithiums whilst driving. technically, the alternator is not charging them at all .. the DC-DC charger is. So you already posted that it's lithium capable, so whatever the lithiums batteries are capable of absorbing is what they will get from the DC-DC charger. SO the answer here is yes .. the 70A alternator for that situation is fine.

    Read the fine print on the lithium batteries, they can't all be charged very quickly. They have internal controllers for both charge and discharge.
    eg. it could be that these cheap sounding lithium batteries can only be charged at (say) 10A max or something. They may also be limited to a maximum output allowance too.
    eg. lets say that they only allow 20A output maximum, but you run some accessories(lights, fridge whatever) that exceeds 20A at few times. What happens to the electronics inside the lithium batteries. They usually reset, but if cheap and nasty enough could burn out or something.

    So as an example(not knowing what Li batteries you are referring too), there are currently two different Voltax branded Li batteries on offer on on ebay for approx the money you mentioned.
    One is 'deep cycle'.
    The "Deep Cycle" version is about $200 more(give or take). Note the specs. This particular model is listed as Lithium Iron. The cheaper(by $200) version is LiFePo4.
    The major difference in what I refer to above is the output capability(discharge). The cheaper one has a 50A max draw, the 'Deep Cycle' Iron model does 100A.
    The other point of difference is the maximum (continuous) charge. The Iron one allows 40A(ie. input), and the LiFePo4 is limited to 20A input.

    ie. if you wanted the cheaper (~$500) Lithium batteries, they only allow 20A input. So if you had a 40A DC-DC charger and a 100A alternator, AND a 200w+(ie. about 15(ish)A ) solar array .. the LifePo4 batteries will only allow themselves to charge at 20A anyhow.

    I'm pretty sure my words are accurate here .. maybe the more technically adept members like Tim will correct any info I've contributed. Noting that my numbers are purely the theoretical listed by the devices referred too. In real world the actual numbers will be slightly different.

    My post is to alert the OP that there is no point in going for a larger alternator or larger array of panels, if the batteries they want, can't make use of that extra power output by any mods made.
    Be aware of the limits of the stuff you intend to purchase, before you figure out doesn't deliver the required capability.
    Arthur.

    '99 D1 300Tdi Auto
    '03 D2 Td5 Auto

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazzle218 View Post
    Hi Mate, any chance you could let me no what part number or vehicle the patrol one is off thanks.
    Just a GQ patrol diesel alternator. The pulley will need to be swapped, but thats easy enough. You can get a greater range of output ratings, and at half the price than isuzu

  4. #14
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    Please excuse my ignorance. If i run an isolator (recommendations please) do i need anything else to control the charge for the Lithium? or does the BMS handle it for you. Lithium black magic to me . Also battery im looking at has Charge Voltage: 14.6V Product Type: Battery
    Energy: 1728Wh UPC: 9.35535E+12
    Discharge cut-off voltage: 10V Dimension: 406x173.6x237.5mm
    Charge Method: CC/CV Model: LiFePO4
    Standard Charge Current: 30A Custom Bundle: No
    Max. Charge Current: 50A Modified Item: No
    Standard Discharge Current: 50A Country/Region of Manufacture: Does Not Apply
    Max. Continues Discharge current: 50A Bundle Description: No
    Manufacturer Warranty: 2 years Modification Description: No
    Terminals: Top Post Amp Hours: 135 Ah
    Expiry Date: No Battery Size: 12 V
    Featured Refinements: Yes Charger Type: Mains Charger
    Fitment Type: Lithium Ion Chemical Composition: Li-Ion, Lithium,Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4)
    Brand Type: VoltaX Coin Cell Diameter: No
    BCI Group Number: No

    All my camping is off grid and i do not use a inverter for anything

  5. #15
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    Hi Bazzle, you will need a DC/DC device to charge any lithium battery.

    Whether go lithium or not, is up to you, but the specs you have posted up for that lithium battery, are NOT very good and I would be looking for some other brand with better specs.

  6. #16
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    Hi again Bazzle and seriously, you would be better off with one of my kits and a lead acid battery, rather than buying one of those lithiums.

    One of the most specs you need to knows the TOTAL THROUGHPUT of a battery, especially lithium batteries.

    No one can determine the TOTAL THROUGHPUT of that battery as because the info needed to determine its TOTAL THROUGHPUT is not provided.

    You need a MINIMUM depth of discharge and the number of cycles you can take it down to that depth.

    With these two specs, you can then times the number of cycle by the depth and this will give you the TOTAL THROUGHPUT.

    You can then use the TOTAL THROUGHPUT of one make or brand of lithium battery to compare it with other similar sized lithium batteries.

    PLEASE NOTE, the statement “Discharge cut-off voltage: 10v” means absolutely nothing with out explanation of whether this the the battery’s BMSs automatic shutdown voltage or is this the lowest you should allow the battery to be discharged to before manually isolating the battery?

    Bazzle, there are lead acid batteries with better specs.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by drivesafe View Post
    Hi Bazzle, you will need a DC/DC device to charge any lithium battery.

    Whether go lithium or not, is up to you, but the specs you have posted up for that lithium battery, are NOT very good and I would be looking for some other brand with better specs.
    I didn't think you needed a dcdc for the dcs lithium stuff, it would charge straight from the alternator

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    I didn't think you needed a dcdc for the dcs lithium stuff, it would charge straight from the alternator
    I believe alternator output volts needs to match what the battery requires.....to be able to charge direct without DC-DC

    I’d install a DC-DC

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    I didn't think you needed a dcdc for the dcs lithium stuff, it would charge straight from the alternator
    Hi Vern and yes you could charge straight from the alternator, but you need a way of separating the batteries ( lead acid cranking battery from the Lithium battery ) when the motor is not running.

    NOTE, I specifically stated when the MOTOR is not running, not when the IGNITION is turned off.

    This is one of the many potential problems of mixing the two types of batteries.

    In Bazzle's case, not having a STOP/START vehicle, the problem is just separating the batteries when the alternator is not working, otherwise the lithium will continually discharge back into the lead acid battery.

    This is great for the lead acid battery but it will continually discharge your lithium battery and if you do not drive the vehicle fo a while, you may actually flatten the lithium battery.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by W&KO View Post
    I believe alternator output volts needs to match what the battery requires.....to be able to charge direct without DC-DC

    I’d install a DC-DC
    Charge voltage for the dcs is 14-14.6v, so alternator shouldn't be a problem.

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