Thread: Separating a Range Rover Gearbox from a V8 Motor - traps for new players.

Hello All,

Which Land Rover or Range Rover was the first to have the Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen or ZF 4HP24 automatic transmission fitted to it? I found an internet search result which describes that, "The ZF 4HP22 transmission remains in use on vehicles with Td5 and 4.0 litre V8 engines" (accessed 22nd of May 2023 from, Land Rover Workshop Service and Repair Manuals. The manual does not say when the ZF 4HP22 was first fitted to a member of the Land Rover stable and which vehicle model/s it was.

Kind regards
Lionel

Hi Lionel,
ZF 4HP22 was fitted to Disco 1s both V8 petrol and I believe 200 and 300Tdi diesels, certainly the 300Tdi.
I assume it was fitted to Range Rovers of the same period.

Tony

Hi Lionel, and just some points that you could clarify to be sure .. to be sure.

I would just claim on the basis of 'probability' ... Morgan plus 8 motor would have to be a rare thing here in Aus. Is there the chance that you have mistaken one of the engine number letters or numbers for something else.

I'm no expert on Rover v8 engines, but I'd expect a Morgan 3.9 V8 to be a serpentine belt engine, and this requires a specific crank and front cover to do. You have a V-belt engine there.

If someone went to the trouble to acquire a Morgan V8, (using 'probability again) .. I'd find it weird that they would swap out a pretty horrible Zenith carby setup for a more powerful and economical fuel injected set up.
So on this, it's not a Morgan Plus 8 engine, it's possible it's a Morgan plus 8 bottom end(ie. block and stuff) but a 3.9 Morgan era engine would not have come with carbs.

So be 100% sure on the engine number ... is the S a 5(or vice versa) is the 8 a B(or vice versa), etc.

There is a freely available spreadheet of supposed Rv8 engine numbers and a Morgan 3.9V8 should have the prefix 47A(and then 5 digits).
if this is as your engine is ... then very strange that they turned it into what you have.

3.5 and 3.9 Rangerovers had the 4HP22(86-87ish??), and the 4.6 RRs(early 90s) had the 4HP24.

LT95 meaning zip to you .. is just a pretty ordinary gearbox with integrated transfer case ... I never liked it. Centre diff too fragile, some later spec parts made it a bit less prone to wear. Too heavy as a combo to remove and refit.
The second time mine broke, I decided to change to an LT77s and LT230 and never looked back. LT95 was too noisy and clunky(gear change) and unlikeable if compared to modern gearboxes.
It's only value now would be to someone looking to restore a RRC that has been totally molested in terms of powertrain. Old RRCs are becoming(have become) collectors items and many have been modded to high heaven with engine and gearboxes. Modded RRC have no value, but original ones bring in good $s ... so someone looking to rebuild a badly modded classic may want one.

At the same time that I had a 3.5(carb model) LT95 RRC, my sisters fiance at the time had a later model 3.5EFi with HP22 .. and the ZF auto trans transformed the RRC into a luxury vehicle in every way by comparison.

Hello All,

So here is a run down: from reading the engine number on my Rover V8 I determined that it was made and fitted to a Morgan Plus 8. From another website I found out that Morgan's changed from the previously fitted 3.5 litre V8s to the 3.9 litre V8s in 1990. By the way - as per the attached photograph the engine Number is 47A07767B.

Now given that I have a 3.9 litre V8 motor that was made in approximately 1990 that came in my case fitted with a LT95 gearbox. I also have a 1996 Discovery fitted with a 300TDI and what may be a ZF 4HP22 automatic transmission that comes fully equipped with all the sundry linkages.

Apart from removing the LT95 gearbox is it possible to exchange the LT95 with the ZF 4HP22. I bought the Discovery because it had a good 300tdi as a ready replacement if my 1993 Defender 110's 200tdi packs it in. So the option between the LT95 or the ZF 4HP22 to fit behind the 3.9 litre V8 could be wide open to me.

I know that the 3.9 litre motor in the 1996 Discovery could be fitted with either the LT95 or the ZF 4HP22. However, did the advancement of six years between the a 3.9 litre motor made in approximately 1990 change the placement of bolts and types of bell housings in the 1996 Discovery? Did the placement of bolts and types of bell housings vary between the back of the 3.9 litre motor to fit either the manual or the automatic gearbox? It seems an easy swap with a 3.9 litre V8 between the LT95 or the ZF 4HP22 on paper. However, how difficult is in reality?

Sorry for all my questions which are possibly doing various people's head's in!

For more information about my quest to identify which car my V8 motor was made for and when please see Would the V8 out of a Range Rover Classic be a 'Classic' V8... l 22nd May 2023, 10:33 PM

Kind regards
Lionel

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

Apart from removing the LT95 gearbox is it possible to exchange the LT95 with the ZF 4HP22. I bought the Discovery because it had a good 300tdi as a ready replacement if my 1993 Defender 110's 200tdi packs it in. So the option between the LT95 or the ZF 4HP22 to fit behind the 3.9 litre V8 could be wide open to me.

I know that the 3.9 litre motor in the 1996 Discovery could be fitted with either the LT95 or the ZF 4HP22. However, did the advancement of six years between the a 3.9 litre motor made in approximately 1990 change the placement of bolts and types of bell housings in the 1996 Discovery? Did the placement of bolts and types of bell housings vary between the back of the 3.9 litre motor to fit either the manual or the automatic gearbox? It seems an easy swap with a 3.9 litre V8 between the LT95 or the ZF 4HP22 on paper. However, how difficult is in reality?

Sorry for all my questions which are possibly doing various people's head's in!

Hi Lionel

The ZF4hp22 currently behind the 300 TDI will not fit behind the V8 without varying degrees of modification ( bell housing, ring gear, flex plate, Torque converter and possibly output shaft and extension housing lengths) depending on which vehicle you plan to fit it to.

A 1996 Discovery didn't have an LT95 manual gearbox as the manual version came with the R380 5 speed as well as the ZF4hp22 auto.

As an aside, the LT stood for Leyland Transmission and the 95 was the distance in MM between the mainshaft and layshaft.

Head not "done in"... yet

further to discorevys reply about needing mod bits, to be sure the mod bits you need like bellhousing and stuff, will be relatively easy to find too.

Many LR vehicles used the V8 and ZF trans combination, so is easy to find the required adapters for them.
But you haven't mentioned if you have the necessary transfer case for the 4HP22 tho. We assume that the Disco is a going concern, is this correct?
If so, then you have a 300Tdi + 4HP22(auto) + Lt230 (transfer) combination.

LT95 is a gearbox AND transfer case combined in one large unit.

Are you contemplating using the 3.9 in the Disco(with the 4HP22)?
Like discorevy said, you need so many parts to be changed for the auto box .. I think it'd be easier just to find a good second hand 4HP22 out of a RRC or D1. Note that there are differences with The Disco 2 v8 4HP22 too, as they are the designated 4HP22EH(electronically controlled) and require the transmission ECU(TCU)) to go with them, in a frankenstein build of some type.
The RRC and D1 version of the 4HP22 is not electronically controlled(ie. no TCU).

But be mindful of using the engine number as a guide for some engine parts too. With the photo you've uploaded, the engine is a mix of new and old

Hello Arthur and Discorevy,

I have to admit to having what some could consider to have evil intentions. Apart from this thread I revived an old thread about Series Hot Rods - last year (see ... Land Rover Series Hot Rod).

The V8 and LT95 were initially intended to be boxed into a Series III chassis and a donor body from a non-Land Rover manufacturer grafted onto of the chassis.

Not long into the game I realised that it would be quicker and easier to up grade the chassis to either a Range Rover Classic or a Discovery 1. This would provide things like coil suspension and disc brakes fitted as standard. The engine/gearbox was advertised within 20 minutes of a place I was going to visit that weekend anyway. It seemed rather fortuitous. Engine inspected - yes it is a V8 engine with the word "Rover' on it and that big thing hanging off the back is definitely a gearbox ... tick ... tick ... haggle for a price - very reasonable ... tick. Come back in a fortnight to pick the goodies up ... tick. All good! I can be a very discerning buyer!

So, the engine and gearbox came first. Then one ponders - the Discovery has a fully as per manufacturer's specification fully functioning automatic gearbox sitting idle... The Discovery was bought only for its running and driving 300 tdi. Maybe I could use the gearbox behind the 3.9 V8?

Insufficient knowledge stored in the brain box .. need to ask more experienced people on the forum.

Thoughts are drifting to sourcing a Discovery V8 with either a manual or automatic gearbox as rolling chassis with a crap body. Or no body at all! Still undecided about whether to go manual or auto?

What I do know is the more the lower part of the car is kept as per manufacturer's specifications the easier the finished product will be to pass the roadworthy inspection. However, I would like to stay within either the 1980s or very early 1990s for the year of manufacture to avoid more complex Australian Design Rules requirements. Also, for a semi-luddite like myself, to avoid excessive electronics that is require to make the engine run. Computers in cars!!! No computers are meant to be on someone's desk.

Kind regards
Lionel

So you are building a hybrid, better speak to an engineer ASAP because it may not be possible anymore. FYI, ZF box was fitted to the RRC when it went to EFI in 86.