Thread: TD5 ECU Upgrade

Originally Posted by noddy

Solmanic -- what are your plans for your car? Do you plan on keeping it or selling it in a few years?

Why are you considering it? Do you tow? What sort of driving do you do?

At this stage it is only an idle interest - the vehicle does mostly city driving so getting rid of the lag, low down would make things easier. I realise I certainly don't NEED the extra power, but if it's on offer for the right price (with no drawbacks) I am keen. I do plan on keeping the car, but I said that about my last one too. When the 2007 Defender hits town I will probably start getting itchy feet and trade-up in 2008/09 once they have proven themselves. Plus this is a 100% company car so any upgrade is tax deductable (cha-ching) and I need to bury some dollars before the end of the quarter.

Originally Posted by Tusker

Decent exhaust after the turbo would help - just don't use the extra revs... gee its hard not to..

I don't think tuned headers before the turbo will help at all. It'll hurt if anything. You might get it spot on at one point in the rev range, at the detriment of everywhere else. Theres a lot of science matching port sizes, pipe lengths, valve timing etc etc.

No no no no... don't complicate things. I only want this thread to deal with ECU stuff please.

Originally Posted by solmanic

No no no no... don't complicate things. I only want this thread to deal with ECU stuff please.

Sorry that was my fault

Here's my 2 cents worth...

I had the Triumph Rover Spares ECU reflash done to my 03 Disco in May. Fantastic! It really does transform the vehicle. From what I've research, read etc you can get more agressive upgrades but in general they are all not over top and state an improvement of about 40% in power and 33% in torque. This takes the vehicles theoretical specs 145KW and 440NM (auto). TRS quoted me the increase in power at the wheels was from about 60KW to about 90KW. I also chose them because they would do the reflash on the ECU if I "posted" it to them.
Anyway what ever it is, it is very noticable, floor the peddle and the auto kicks down and on a dirt track the wheels spin...in a Disco! In soft sand it is great and on a step rocky and dusty slope which I have traversed numerious times I now get up much much easiers without any wheel spin.
Economy hasn't changed, but I haven't done a long drive. If you put your foot down though it is worse, as expected.

I'm a little concerned about a discussion on this forum about the manifold studs and heat, but as I don't do much distance driving I think I should be OK. The other thing about the ECU upgrade is to remember that the Td5 is tuned for several things: reasonably long life and EU emmission standards being 2 of them. By changing the parameters to the engine you will certainly change the emissions and probably get a high particluate exhaust emission - I'm guessing a bit here, but it stands to reason - that would potentially not meet requirements at the time. As for the long life, there are people out there with chipped Td5's with good mileage so it obviously doesn't deter from a reasonabl life.

My opinion - go for it. The difference is worth it round town and off-road.

Yes, as far as longevity goes, I am not overly concerned as I am by no means a lead-foot. If a stock TD5 is designed to do 200,000km+ on Sudanese sludge diesel then my measly 20,000km per year won't really change the equation. The power is simply to make moving off from the lights easier, and for other times when a bit more oomph is required on-tap. It's like having a diving watch rated to 200m but that's really only so I don't worry when it gets wet.

OK....

I have a Bruce Davis remapped ECU. I have been back to BD approx 4 times since it was fitted. Blowing clouds of smoke, going into limp mode from overboosting, low range surging. The last issue remains and BD does not seem to have an answer

We have done about 60,000Km since it was fitted and pulled a 1.5 tonne trailer for 50,000km. The torque is great when towing. I have replaced a warped exhaust manifold only in the last week which was caused by excessive heat.

My concerns, longer term, are excessive exhaust gas heat. I have ditched the standard exhaust and gone for 3' pipe all the way through (no mufflers, cat or nuttin) -- this is meant to drop EGTs by 100 degrees.

Doing some poking around on the UK sites, many also recommend doing the larger intercooler in conjunction with the remapped ECU.

My time over? I would not do the ECU.

IMHO the larger intercooler and exhaust makes for a more flexible and reliable package. The turbo spools up much quicker with the bigger exhaust which reduces the perception of lag.

Besides, it is a Defender and if I want to go for a fang, that it what the Pug is for.

As for drivetrain wear, I think it is 50:50. Less gear changes must be better, but putting +400Nm through a gearbox rated for 380Nm cannot be great in the longer term. When that happens I will be looking for a ZF....

If you don't plan on keeping the car in the longer term, I would probably jump at the remapped ECU and have the fun -- just depends on what your plans are for the car and what you want it for.

My 2 cents.

OK, a lot of you have had issues and this all stems to one chip program from a particular source.

My TD5 has run a 185kw/580Nm chip since it was brand new.

It has had 2 cracked manifold studs, has done 120,000 HARD Kilometers in 5 years (remembering I have 4 vehicles) and runs oversized EVERYTHING.

Several standard TD5s (unchipped) have also had several exhaust studs replaced, its just their crappy studs that are the issue, not the Chip.

Some Programs are very warm EGT wise and this is not a good thing, others are correctly programmed.

ALL my programs are MOT/EU compliant and pass all current emission tests in the EU. They are also safe for the engine and well within its required tolerances and therefore do not have a noticeably detrimental effect on engine life.

The increased power actually reduces stress on the engine by enabling a more efficient use of power and torque, enabling smoother, quieter operation.

NODDY are you running intercooler upgrades as well? Please give me a call tonight on 08 7221 2047.

In the market place I have posted an advert, For the starter of this post, I suggest you take a look. Its the best method for uprading a vehicle, is reliable and wont overstress your engine.

Any general questions you have can be posted here. I will respond.

Cheers
Mike (Tombraider) - Yeah, the nut with the TR tattoo

Originally Posted by noddy

We have done about 60,000Km since it was fitted and pulled a 1.5 tonne trailer for 50,000km. The torque is great when towing. I have replaced a warped exhaust manifold only in the last week which was caused by excessive heat.

Excessive heat means the chip you have isnt right for the vehicle.
This can be fixed.

Originally Posted by noddy

My concerns, longer term, are excessive exhaust gas heat. I have ditched the standard exhaust and gone for 3' pipe all the way through (no mufflers, cat or nuttin) -- this is meant to drop EGTs by 100 degrees.

Not that great I'm afraid, mine, measured, dropped only 20 degrees with the 3" (had it there for 4 years now)

I'm working with Vortex (Tiapan XP resell them) and their muffler shows a significant drop in EGTs over straight pipe.

So far drops of 80 degrees have been found.

Originally Posted by noddy

Doing some poking around on the UK sites, many also recommend doing the larger intercooler in conjunction with the remapped ECU.

My time over? I would not do the ECU.

IMHO the larger intercooler and exhaust makes for a more flexible and reliable package. The turbo spools up much quicker with the bigger exhaust which reduces the perception of lag.

Besides, it is a Defender and if I want to go for a fang, that it what the Pug is for.

As for drivetrain wear, I think it is 50:50. Less gear changes must be better, but putting +400Nm through a gearbox rated for 380Nm cannot be great in the longer term.

I'd never say DONT do the ECU, but get it done right.

The larger intercooler benefits in flow and cooler charge. As far as a std vehicle goes, you'll get very marginal benefits, except for cooler air, so on a 25 degree day its no better than driving a std vehicle on a 15 degree morning.

3" pipe - yes, I believe there is a noticeable decrease in spool time.

Drivetrain wear, no consequential wear.

Just drained R380 after 40,000kms... Hardly ANY filings on the plug, none on the Transfer case plug.

Oil sampling showed very low metals in the oil (well below)

My gearbox copes with 500+Nm and is still going strong.
The Auto in the Disco is seeing around 460Nm and not crying either after 80,000kms.

Cheers
Tombraider