Thread: Defender rims

Originally Posted by wovenrovings

Just wondering are any of the defender steel rims able to be used with tubeless tyres? The rims on my 120" are rivetted and so need tubes. Would be nice to run tubeless. Other option is disco rims of course.

Short answer. NO.

As far as I know none of the steel 90/110/Defender wheels have the retaining shoulder which should be used on tubeless tyres. While Disco wheels will fit, they are not rated to the maximum load of a 110 (or 120) and while you would almost certainly have no problems, they could have legal and insurance implications.

John

We've got a 98 Defender that ran Michelin tubed tyres from new on standard rims ANR 4636. On the next set of tyres, BFG tubeless I was told that I had to run tubes in the tubeless tyres because the rims weren't tubeless rated, on the next tyres different fitter, I was asked why I was running tubes in a tubeless tyre as it was not good for them they run too hot so I ran them for years without tubes on the same rims and never had a problem. I've since gone to wolf tubeless rims with tubeless tyres

so only to confuse you more some say you can, some say you can't

Hi John

"While Disco wheels will fit, they are not rated to the maximum load of a 110 (or 120) and while you would almost certainly have no problems, they could have legal and insurance implications."

I've seen you post this comment a few times and I am curious. How did you come to this conclusion on the load rating ? Is it stamped on the rim ?

Thanks

Originally Posted by Dave110

so I ran them for years without tubes on the same rims and never had a problem.

Same for me with an '86 County

Originally Posted by isuzu110

Hi John

"While Disco wheels will fit, they are not rated to the maximum load of a 110 (or 120) and while you would almost certainly have no problems, they could have legal and insurance implications."

I've seen you post this comment a few times and I am curious. How did you come to this conclusion on the load rating ? Is it stamped on the rim ?

Thanks

As far as I know they are not stamped with a load rating. But the Disco has significantly lower maximum axle loading than has a 110, and the unless you can show evidence that the Disco wheel has been approved by the manufacturer for this higher load, you have nothing to stand on if you run it at this higher load (even if you don't ever run your 110 fully loaded, you could have problems with either an insurance company trying to avoid liability or a policeman looking for something to book you for).
As to whether the wheel is, in fact, strong enough, this has to be considered an unknown. Judging wheel strength by appearance is almost impossible, and even a detailed structural analysis would not be possible given the lack of knowledge about the properties of the steel (heat treatment, stress relief etc) and the amount of variability allowed in manufacture. And wheel failures on 110s are not unknown - I have had a standard wheel split, for example. As I said earlier, my guess is that you would get away with it, but you would never know how much margin, if any, you had.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

As far as I know they are not stamped with a load rating. But the Disco has significantly lower maximum axle loading than has a 110, and the unless you can show evidence that the Disco wheel has been approved by the manufacturer for this higher load, you have nothing to stand on if you run it at this higher load (even if you don't ever run your 110 fully loaded, you could have problems with either an insurance company trying to avoid liability or a policeman looking for something to book you for).
As to whether the wheel is, in fact, strong enough, this has to be considered an unknown. Judging wheel strength by appearance is almost impossible, and even a detailed structural analysis would not be possible given the lack of knowledge about the properties of the steel (heat treatment, stress relief etc) and the amount of variability allowed in manufacture. And wheel failures on 110s are not unknown - I have had a standard wheel split, for example. As I said earlier, my guess is that you would get away with it, but you would never know how much margin, if any, you had.

John

John - sorry but you have been spouting this rubbish off for far too long.

Neither disco nor defender rims have a load rating stamped on them. The kerb weight of a S1 Disco is 1980kg, the kerb weight of a 110 wagon is 1810kg (engined not specified). SO THE AXLE LOADINGS WILL BE PRETTY SIMILAR EVEN WHEN FULLY LOADED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

The construction of disco rims are as strong of stronger than the strongest 130 rim, let alone a 110 rim. The centre is THICKER on a disco rim than a 130 rim, and the outer is the same thickness.

Btw - anecdotal evidence - a mate has a 130 on disco rims that is frequently fully laden and tows a 30' caravan. No problems yet...

Other friends have disco rims fitted to 110s that are the veterans of many desert trips - tipping the scales at about 3500kg!!! when fully loaded with water and fuel. They have driven over the worst corrugations in australia.

SO I think that if YOU want to keep spouting this bull$..t - YOU need to show that the disco rim is not up to the job - I would trust the strength of a disco rim long before I would trust the strength of a 110 rim.

Originally Posted by isuzurover

John - sorry but you have been spouting this rubbish off for far too long.

Neither disco nor defender rims have a load rating stamped on them. The kerb weight of a S1 Disco is 1980kg, the kerb weight of a 110 wagon is 1810kg (engined not specified). SO THE AXLE LOADINGS WILL BE PRETTY SIMILAR EVEN WHEN FULLY LOADED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

The construction of disco rims are as strong of stronger than the strongest 130 rim, let alone a 110 rim. The centre is THICKER on a disco rim than a 130 rim, and the outer is the same thickness.

Btw - anecdotal evidence - a mate has a 130 on disco rims that is frequently fully laden and tows a 30' caravan. No problems yet...

Other friends have disco rims fitted to 110s that are the veterans of many desert trips - tipping the scales at about 3500kg!!! when fully loaded with water and fuel. They have driven over the worst corrugations in australia.

SO I think that if YOU want to keep spouting this bull$..t - YOU need to show that the disco rim is not up to the job - I would trust the strength of a disco rim long before I would trust the strength of a 110 rim.

No need to get hot under the collar - but just because overall weights of vehicles are the same does not mean the axle load distribution is the same (and since the disposable load on the 110 is greater and is almost entirely on the rear axle...), or indeed that the dynamic loads on the wheels are the same.
The fact remains, that the Disco wheel is not approved for the 110 (or have you evidence that it is?) - and no amount of annecdotal evidence or your trust will make it approved. Before ADRs existed this was not a problem - a good comparison might be tow bars - these days the towbar has to be designed for and labelled for the specific model - this has only been a requirement since somewhere about 1990 (and for vehicles post this date only) - before that you could make your own, and many did.


As I said, it will probably work, but you are on your own.

John