Use of graphite or moly in diffs?

I have been aware for many years that Nulon does nothing except lighten your wallet as do most other oil additives. We always put moly or colloidal graphite in the diffs of our heavy trucks as the combination of excess loading, heat, & bad roads in a number of cases caused temporary distortion at the diff. head to banjo joint and thus major oil leaks. Treated diffs would tolerate low oil levels and even a few cases of water intake before we learned to fit elevated breathers to all road train units that did wet crossings. We also found that treated diffs had a longer service life between overhauls. I was wondering if it was worthwhile treating my LR's diffs even though they are not going to get anything like this sort of work.

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I have been aware for many years that Nulon does nothing except lighten your wallet as do most other oil additives. We always put moly or colloidal graphite in the diffs .......... Treated diffs would tolerate low oil levels and even a few cases of water intake ........... We also found that treated diffs had a longer service life between overhauls........... I was wondering if it was worthwhile treating my LR's diffs even though they are not going to get anything like this sort of work.

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I think in the case of Moly. I'd be thinking/saying Yes, give it a go, it certainely won't harm, and it's cheap enough............as far as colloidal graphite I've read a lot about it that makes me say no, don't add it!

For what it is worth, I am inclined to agree with Unca Ho. I've been using Wynn's products, in industrial engineering for years, can be a little pricey, but, you get what you pay for.
Saw a demo of Wynn's auto oil stabiliser years ago in the NT, that convinced me. 202 engine, sump doctored with Wynn's, then the sump was dropped and left off. Drove from Darwin to Alice for the annual show, drove around Alice and the showgrounds, all with no sump.
Just don't use a dry coloidal graphite, like most say, it makes ugly lumpy stuff and kills bearings dead. Pity about that Trumpy Trophy, sweatest bike ever built I reckon.

Shorty.

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Originally Posted by UncleHo

G'day Brian Hjelm :)

I have used "Wynns Gear and Diff Additive" in both Gear/Transfer/Diffs. for years now, and used to use it in all my other cars as well, Holdens Toyo Crowns,BMC's, and V8 Fords (SV's) as insurance, and quietening;) works well n the Series Vehicles. I got into using it during the 60's at Castlereagh's 1/4 mile strip.:D


cheers

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Yep im with uncle ho on this one ive used wynns gearbox and diff treatment for years now and have never had a oil problem yet evcept for when i got oil in my rear diff and broke it due to a non functioning diff breather ...

Good reminder tho when im in super crap on friday to get me sum for the oil change in the lt95 ...

Cheers

Chris

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Originally Posted by shorty943

For what it is worth, I am inclined to agree with Unca Ho. I've been using Wynn's products, in industrial engineering for years, can be a little pricey, but, you get what you pay for.
Saw a demo of Wynn's auto oil stabiliser years ago in the NT, that convinced me. 202 engine, sump doctored with Wynn's, then the sump was dropped and left off. Drove from Darwin to Alice for the annual show, drove around Alice and the showgrounds, all with no sump.
Just don't use a dry coloidal graphite, like most say, it makes ugly lumpy stuff and kills bearings dead. Pity about that Trumpy Trophy, sweatest bike ever built I reckon.

Shorty.

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Great motorcycle the old Triumphs, had an ex-cops parade bike 69 Trophy, only had 400 miles on it, loved it, just wondering, how did they get that holden running without oil to pump up the Hydraulic lifters, I seen this Demo somewhere as well, I asked about the lifters, they told me to
Pi$$ off, always thought there was something not quiet right about that, Regards Frank.

Aside from the new generation oils and advances in lubrication technology, I know an older 4wder who swears by molybond, I think its real name is molebdium disulphate.This bloke told me the germans developed it in the second world war.
Just a little bit here and a little bit there, is all you need.
Must be something in it as they are now moly coating projectiles( bullets for the uninformed) to slide down barrels without any drag.


john

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Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm

I have been aware for many years that Nulon does nothing except lighten your wallet as do most other oil additives. We always put moly or colloidal graphite in the diffs of our heavy trucks as the combination of excess loading, heat, & bad roads in a number of cases caused temporary distortion at the diff. head to banjo joint and thus major oil leaks. Treated diffs would tolerate low oil levels and even a few cases of water intake before we learned to fit elevated breathers to all road train units that did wet crossings. We also found that treated diffs had a longer service life between overhauls. I was wondering if it was worthwhile treating my LR's diffs even though they are not going to get anything like this sort of work.

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Brian, I used to talk regularly with a bloke that runs a fleet of trucks up and
down the eastern seaboard and his whole fleet was converted many years ago to full synthetic oil usage after working with both Castrol and Mobil in field testing lubricants. (he worked for Texaco in Europe in the late sixties)

He said that the final drive temps have dropped dramatically using Syntrax, (they actually got it approved by Eaton/Fuller after proving how much better results it was giving over the specced lubes) hub seals now tend to last the life of the vehicle and they no longer have to re-race Road Rangers every 400,000km, (Mobil SHC 30 or 50, from memory) although he did say that could be a combination of lubricant and better QC on Eatons part.
Here's a couple of Doug's posts on another message board.

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my trucks are rated at 68500kgs (170700lbs) but we are legal at 42500kgs(93500lbs)and are always loaded at that (truely!). We do no empty running at all!
All of my trucks are OEM speed limited to 100kmh (62mph) and spend a lot of time between 80 and 100kmh. They run 1650rpm at 100kmh (4.33 diffs)

The DS462Ps are rated at 46000lbs and I use RTLO 18918B boxes (with oil coolers)

In my operation we have a few long & steep climbs but about 80% of the running is flat to mild undulating terrain

We found that running synthetic SAE50 (instead of mineral SAE50 or GL1 SAE90) preserved "new shift" feel to way beyond 1.3 million kms regardless of the Driver's skills - or lack of)
If a Driver is caught making clutchless shifts they are fired without arguement!

We change the transmission/diff oils every 1m kms or at four years! We replace gearbox filters at 150k kms and our clutches generally last for 800k kms (500k miles) on average

Our operating ambient temperatures range from -10C to 42F+ and this could be experienced on the same day!......


.......for many years I used Shell then Castrol's synthetic oils
We then tried Mobil 1 and the results have been identical

The gearbox synthetic is great at improving cold oil shifting

I still have a "soft spot" for Castrol's gear lubricants....

......In 1997 Rockwell ( then ) and Eaton ( then ) would not approve a synthetic GL5 75w-90 for use in their diffs. in Australia

I challenged their logic as it was already approved in NA at 38C> and had been since the early 1990s. Of course they could not explain their reasoning except to mention shock loading at high ambient temperatures. This was simply due to a lack of knowledge about their own Company's previous testing regime

We did our own ambient monitoring and found long distances - 800kms - at or below 2C overnight in mid winter ( up to +30C daytime )
We monitored the diff. temps and they rarely showed above 60C in these conditions
In the end and after producing the facts we obtained written approval from both Manufacturers

The change to 75w-90 also resulted in a 20C diff temperature reduction in mid summer days of 40C+

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This is a normal medium service highway application with a six axle rig. I would expect the gear to last that long. This application is not to be compared with livestock road trains in Western Queensland on appalling roads/tracks and a gvm in excess of 100tons. We solved the problem of diff. oil leaks caused by housing distortion by machining an o-ring groove in the gasket face of the diff. head and eliminating the gasket with an o-ring which had enough resilience to cope with the distortion. I did the first one on our flat belt driven forty y.o. (then) Van Norman mill, which was replaced with a second hand ex tech. college 7 ton Stankoexport. Best milling machine I ever used. It could take a 1/2" cut in steel with an 8" slab mill with out a chatter.

Look, I do not want to get into a slanging match BUT.
I personally met a VC Commodore driven from Singapore to KL with no oil but treated with Nulon( publicity stunt for launch in Malaysia) when I was a Trade Commissioner. I have no relationship with Nulon.
To answer the question on lifters, they fitted solid ones.
The car had a radiator hose blow off while idling on the causeway, yet still made it to KL with no oil. It was a wreck when it got there , but get there it did.

With regard to teflon as a lubricant, I think many of you are confusing two different functions. I think the argument about "plating cylinders" etc is probably very overdone, and maybe there is no need in an engine.

However the function as a suspended solid lubricant in a metal on metal environment is quite different and there are numerous tests using test rigs that show that teflon is good in that usage.

I would use Molyslip if it were still available, but I think it has been discontinued. I went onto the relevant site and could find no mention.
I have also not seen it or a product like it for many years.

If someone knows where to get it please advise.
Regards Philip A

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Originally Posted by JohnE

Aside from the new generation oils and advances in lubrication technology, I know an older 4wder who swears by molybond, I think its real name is molebdium disulphate.This bloke told me the germans developed it in the second world war.
Just a little bit here and a little bit there, is all you need.
Must be something in it as they are now moly coating projectiles( bullets for the uninformed) to slide down barrels without any drag.


john

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molybond is just a % of molybdenum disulphide in a mineral oil carrier. There's no doubt MoS2 is brilliant in low speed, low temp situations when the main lubricants hydrodynamic film breaks down. It's ability to shear and plate metal parts, preventing galling and wear is well known, but if the lube already works fine under all operating conditions it's wasted, and in some situations can be deleterious, eg. in engine oil. A much better form of moly in engines is soluble moly, and these days it is being replaced with more exotic additives such as Boron.

Anyway, I always use a moly fortified (only needs to be 3-5% max) lithium complex NLGI 2 grease on any sliding coupling (splines) CV's, ball joints/tie rod ends, etc. Even uni joints. An old F100 I had still had the original king pins, tie rod ends, tail shaft spline and uni's with no discernable play on any item when I took it off the road after 500,000km using plain old Castrol LMM.

I just wouldn't bother adding it to any quality fully formulated lube. It may even be a component of the blend, (including antimony) although Boron and Calcium Carbonates are generally being used instead these days.