Steep Hill Descent. In Reverse.

**sam_d** · 29th August 2007, 09:39 AM

Here's one for ya:

During a recent trip with we found ourselves in a situation which required the two leading cars of the convoy needing to do a steep hill descent in reverse (thanks to a fallen treet blocking the path).

The first car to do this was a Land Cruiser. Already in low range, reverse was engaged and the driver prepeared himself for a controlled descent under engine braking. However, this wasn't the case - the car took off with no engine braking at all. At first we assumed the driver had panicked or done something wrong so another demonstation was given. Again, in low range reverse, no engine braking. The Land Cruiser just took off.

So, we thought we'd see what a Land Rover would do so I drove my Disco 1 up the hill a bit in low range. Engaged reverse and expected a controlled descent under engine braking (as I had been taught would be the case in a stall recovery) but no, this didn't happen either. I took off down the hill the same as the Land cruiser.

So, why no engine braking in low range reverse? My Disco is a V8 Auto, the Land Cruiser was a diesel auto.

Should I forget what I was taught about doing a hill stall recovery in reverse?

The only car that did reverse downhill in a slow controlled maner was the Disco 3 but that had all sorts of electronic traction contol and braking doing all the work.

**JohnE** · 29th August 2007, 09:45 AM

i think being an auto may be the key, unless the torque converter is locked,you need the right amount of revs for it to lock up, the weight of the vehicle is going to push you down quicker than the engine braking. A bit like engaging 'D' on a steep hill the vehicle is going to roll backwards it won't hold on idle only

All my training was done in a manual, keystart reverse and forward, how do you do a keystart in an auto?? let alone do a deliberate stall to control you ascent or descent.

john

**njz** · 29th August 2007, 09:49 AM

When I did the club training course all the auto drivers were taught to drive through the brakes on steep slopes and stall recoveries. Left foot on the brake right on the accelerator. Were you doing that?

**sam_d** · 29th August 2007, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by njz

When I did the club training course all the auto drivers were taught to drive through the brakes on steep slopes and stall recoveries. Left foot on the brake right on the accelerator. Were you doing that?

It was on the brake the moment I found the car rolling away! And then slow and controlled after that!

**Pedro_The_Swift** · 29th August 2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by JohnE

i think being an auto may be the key, unless the torque converter is locked,you need the right amount of revs for it to lock up, the weight of the vehicle is going to push you down quicker than the engine braking. A bit like engaging 'D' on a steep hill the vehicle is going to roll backwards it won't hold on idle only

All my training was done in a manual, keystart reverse and forward, how do you do a keystart in an auto?? let alone do a deliberate stall to control you ascent or descent.

john

The D2 fixes this by having Hill Descent,
which does work in reverse, its not perfect, but its better than the above.

**sam_d** · 29th August 2007, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by JohnE

i think being an auto may be the key, unless the torque converter is locked,you need the right amount of revs for it to lock up, the weight of the vehicle is going to push you down quicker than the engine braking. A bit like engaging 'D' on a steep hill the vehicle is going to roll backwards it won't hold on idle only

All my training was done in a manual, keystart reverse and forward, how do you do a keystart in an auto?? let alone do a deliberate stall to control you ascent or descent.

john

I thought Auto was the issue.

As for the stall recovery in auto I was told to start engine as usual (in neutral), engage gear then relase brake. Works fine going forward.

**sam_d** · 29th August 2007, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

The D2 fixes this by having Hill Descent,
which does work in reverse, its not perfect, but its better than the above.

We had a D2 with us but they decided not to bother trying.

**JohnE** · 29th August 2007, 10:04 AM

Couldn;t bring the other link over, maybe because i don;t know how to do it,
just go into search type low range engine braking and about half way down is auto engine braking.

If this worked its a link to the auto braking

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/showthread...engine+braking

john

**njz** · 29th August 2007, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by sam_d

It was on the brake the moment I found the car rolling away! And then slow and controlled after that!

Maybe that was the problem. With left foot braking / driving though the brakes you should have had your foot on the brake the whole time.

Auto drivers feel free to correct me

but from what I remember you select the low gear you want and apply enough pressure to the brake with your left foot to hold it with handbrake off. You then gently apply power with your right and the disco will move slowly. You use the accelerator to control your speed and keep the same pressure on the brake. If you take your foot off the accelerator it should come to a stop again provided it isn't too slippery.

**PhilipA** · 29th August 2007, 10:30 AM

I think in the reverse down a hill situation, I would leave the auto in drive.
I have seen quite a few reverses with ABS (well two on U tube - one last week on General Chat) where the front wheels are obviously locked even with ABS.
I have tried this over short distances and it seems to work. Just a tiny bit of accelerator slows all four wheels with no front bias. This is in a 92 Rangie with no ABS, and viscous coupling.

Going forwards, I make sure to start slow, or actually stop at the top of the incline. Then handbrake held by hand, low low, plus light brake modulation.
BUT I think the most important thing is to start off stopped and keep the speed as low as possible for as long as possible. If steering is lost ease off handbrake, a bit of accelerator, and try to stay IN any ruts.

I got down the big hill in the middle of the Daintree in pouring rain in a hired Rav4 Auto safely doing this.
Regards Philip A

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