stock track rod - made of cheese or just me?

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Originally Posted by Dougal

Well actually. In buckling high strength steels aren't any better than mild steel. It's the elasticity that matters there and there's virtually no difference between cheese steel and the harder stuff.

The way to improve buckling strength is a bigger diameter, looks like everyone worked that out already.
A higher strength steel will help if you bend it by dragging the tierod over a rock or stump though.

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Absolutely correct - Euler buckling depends only on elastic modulus (which is the same for all steels) and dimensions/geometry. The only difference in the strength of steels is how far they deform elastically (before the deformation is permanent) but for Euler buckling this is irrelevant, at least for any practical material.

The formula for buckling also shows that the material in the centre has very little effect, so a larger diameter tube is far more benefit than going to solid rod of the same or similar diameter, and adds far less to unsprung mass.

John

We have bent all of them as well. One early model bent the damper and stripped the thread on draglink :eek:Have also bent Toyota ones. So they not much better. The coil sprung Rovers seem to be the worst for it.;)

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

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I am sure that the pi$$weak track rod was simply a LR engineering oversight, rather than an intended design feature.

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which is exactly what my mate Mark used to say it was, and he worked for JRA as a Land Rover engineer on the Perentie, and later in the 90's as a consulting engineer until the Ford takeover.
He said Solihull wouldn't budge on things like this and it used to really frustrate the local engineers.

I dunno, I'm sure a stock rover would have survived this.:D

Hummers ain't as badass as you may think... - CollegeHumor video

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Originally Posted by isuzurover

6x6 or 4x4?

That is a pretty impressive failure - never seen anyone manage to break a drop arm.

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it didnt smash it to pieces but split the part thats milled out to bolt onto the sector shaft... I suspect that when the teeth gave out and the arm rotated around the shaft that it splayed the eyelet out beyond the limit of the metal.

the normal mode of failure is to elongate the bottom bush on the sector shaft and cause seal failure.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

urmmmmm its in tension when its pulling the wheel around one way and its under compression when its going the other... unless youve got some magic way of having the drag link and steering box change sides of the vehicle when you turn the wheel in differing directions...

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Dave,

The first post of this thread is talking about the TRACK rod. As I understand it that's the bar that joins the left swivel hub to the right swivel hub and adjustment of this alters the tracking (toe in toe out etc.). The mode of failure described was bashing one wheel and bending the track rod. On a deefer this bends the TRACK rod as it is in compression when the force is distributed along it to the other swivel housing. On a series truck this didn't happen as the TRACK rod was on the front of the axle, so the rod was in tension if you belted the wheel from the front. I know this from experience out west hitting wash outs on gravel roads at speeds greater than 50 kmh. Never bent a series, bent the deefer first time.

I know you know all this Dave, but I just coudn't let it go:D

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Originally Posted by foz.in.oz

Dave,

The first post of this thread is talking about the TRACK rod. As I understand it that's the bar that joins the left swivel hub to the right swivel hub and adjustment of this alters the tracking (toe in toe out etc.). The mode of failure described was bashing one wheel and bending the track rod. On a deefer this bends the TRACK rod as it is in compression when the force is distributed along it to the other swivel housing. On a series truck this didn't happen as the TRACK rod was on the front of the axle, so the rod was in tension if you belted the wheel from the front. I know this from experience out west hitting wash outs on gravel roads at speeds greater than 50 kmh. Never bent a series, bent the deefer first time.

I know you know all this Dave, but I just coudn't let it go:D

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well if we're going to be picky...

first of we are actually talking about the tie rod not the track rod. (but I got the gist of what he was talking about and was happy to run with his terminology).

but now that were going to be picky

theres 3 rods in the setup of all the coiler rovers (well the shed ones at least) first of being the drag link this is the one that goes from the steering arm to the left hand steering arm and drags that wheel in the direction you want to go. The second is the tie rod and it ties the right wheel to the left wheel and ties it into the same general turning direction as the left wheel. The track rod is responsable for keeping the track of the axle in line with the chassis and the rear axle so that when going straight ahead the front wheels will go over the same ground as the rear.

The series rovers, being leaf sprung have no need for a track rod.

the opening statement was

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Originally Posted by mitch

went for a drive in the county yesterday afternoon and bent my third track rod. it wasn't even a difficult section. it always seems to happen when the rhs wheel gets jammed against something and i try to turn left then everything goes all toe-out :p

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I dont care how hard you try bending the track rod is not going to adjust the toe-in other than to do with the axle shifted over in relation to the steering box causeing the wheels to turn a little and the toe-in on turns configuration of the ackerman steering setup coming into effect but once you get the wheels pointed straight a head by cranking in a little left hand down you should wind up back at your nominal toe-in settings. your tracking will be out and you will wind up "crabbing" the vehicle when driving straight ahead.

Its also stipulated that it happens when he has the RHF wheel against something solid and he trys to left that he bends his rod, fair enough thats how it usually happens and youve stated that this didnt happen on a series rover.. Um yes it does but since you dont have power steering to help you abuse things down the front its a hell of a lot harder to do. Can you remember why the correct driving posture for a 4x4 is with the thumbs outside of the steering wheel? At any rate, if you were able to hold the steering wheel securely enough and you side slipped the front right hand wheel down onto a boulder while holding a right hand turn then in the front of the chassis where the powersteering box goes in a coiler is a thingy called a relay box in its a whacking great spring that was put in to absorb the sudden impacts on the steering. Dont take one apart that spring can throw the internal bits quite a ways.... but if you were able to take up all the spring tension and then smack the wheel as previously described then yes you would bend the drag link.


you are at least partially correct about the rod under compression thing tho.

given that the correct toe setting for a series is 1-2mm toe in or thereabouts when you drive forwards as the axle is normaly not driven the wheels pull outwards slightly and place the rod under tension as its on the front of the vehicle and on a deefer being a full time fourwheel drive the setting is for 0-1mm toe out which then pulls back when drive is applied to the front axle and as the drag link is behind the axle its once again under tension.


but thats just if we're going to be picky........

the simple version is

sereis rovers dont normally have power steering and have a relay box to take the smacks out of offroad driving. coilers generally have power steering and no relay box meaning you get more power to bend stuff....

i honestly doubt i would have bent a single one if i didnt have power steering, i also wouldnt be able to turn the steering wheel though :D

cheers- mitch

So in summary. Track rod = panhard rod.

Dave - a bit of digging on the internet reveals that track rod is the english word and tie rod is the american. Just like the difference between halfshaft and axle, bulkhead and firewall, stub axle and spindle, etc...

Defender from Qt Services

SO since it is a Land Rover - I think track rod is just as valis as tie rod.