Thread: what drives/feels better? (Series3 question)

The Rover engine's design harks back to even before the first 80" Land Rovers. It's a fairly high maintenance engine in that the exhaust valve clearances should be checked every oil change. Neglecting this seems to be the reason for the burnt exhaust valve issue. Since you almost certainly have to remove the exhaust manifold to do it, you can see why it happens. They were known for around 15mpg fuel consumption (in a decent one) so some owners leaned off the idle mixtures to help and this added to the burnt valves problem. That said, most owners liked the 6 as a smooth, strong engine - it was used successfully in the upmarket Rover cars in various sizes for years so it can't be all bad. Parts are steadily becoming harder to get now too.
The Holden engines were much easier to live with over here. Hydraulic lifters and ohv made them simple to service, and they were a good strong powerplant. It's as easy as getting the right adapter plate, flywheel and engine mounts. The series 1-2a Rover axles were found quite lacking with this engine though, especially if the long stroke 202 was used. It wasn't as fast spinning as a Rover 6 though and really needed an overdrive or something. The 202 also gained a reputation for lunching gearboxes ... even its native Holden boxes, so a Landy 4speed was easy pickings.
Fuel consumption is about the same between the two. Adding an overdrive to the Rover 6 is an excellent choice, Whereas the Holden sixes would be better off with a high-ratio transfer case - they have the power to pull it, but maybe too much for a Fairey O/D to handle.
I talked with a friend about bhp and torque figures when I first got my 2b FC. The Rover six has 80-90bhp and 124lb/ft. The Holden red 138 (smallest red, fitted to low-spec Toranas) seemed to match these figures, while the 202 (the largest red) has about 220bhp and 195lb/ft. I'm considering putting a 161 into mine somewhere down the track.
Wow, it's almost a novel! Hope this helps.

I personally prefer the Land Rover 4 Cylinder Petrol it had almost as much power as the six was more economical and much more durable.
Trust me the six in the 3 litre car form was a great engine but even a very well looked after 2.6 in a Land Rover were trouble. They often used more oil than they should, burnt more valves than they should, used more fuel than they should and it was common to blow head gaskets. When they were tuned with extractors they performed quite well very smooth often deceptive as they could have low compression on the rear 2 cylinders and still sound perfect. With the absence of lead in modern petrol I cant imagine them being any better than what they were when I was running them.
To be honest I havent had much to do with Holden Powered Land Rovers as in the 80s I was a staunch Land Rover advocate and wouldnt bastardise a Land Rover in such an uncouth way.
Go the 4 Cylinder there are few engines you could overheat to such a degree that they would seize solid then when they cool down continue on as normal very tough engines.

Sorry Know I didnt answer your question but a 4 is just the better engine but I suppose it depends what you want to use it for

Originally Posted by dandlandyman

The Rover engine's design harks back to even before the first 80" Land Rovers. It's a fairly high maintenance engine in that the exhaust valve clearances should be checked every oil change. Neglecting this seems to be the reason for the burnt exhaust valve issue. Since you almost certainly have to remove the exhaust manifold to do it, you can see why it happens. They were known for around 15mpg fuel consumption (in a decent one) so some owners leaned off the idle mixtures to help and this added to the burnt valves problem. That said, most owners liked the 6 as a smooth, strong engine - it was used successfully in the upmarket Rover cars in various sizes for years so it can't be all bad. Parts are steadily becoming harder to get now too.
The Holden engines were much easier to live with over here. Hydraulic lifters and ohv made them simple to service, and they were a good strong powerplant. It's as easy as getting the right adapter plate, flywheel and engine mounts. The series 1-2a Rover axles were found quite lacking with this engine though, especially if the long stroke 202 was used. It wasn't as fast spinning as a Rover 6 though and really needed an overdrive or something. The 202 also gained a reputation for lunching gearboxes ... even its native Holden boxes, so a Landy 4speed was easy pickings.
Fuel consumption is about the same between the two. Adding an overdrive to the Rover 6 is an excellent choice, Whereas the Holden sixes would be better off with a high-ratio transfer case - they have the power to pull it, but maybe too much for a Fairey O/D to handle.
I talked with a friend about bhp and torque figures when I first got my 2b FC. The Rover six has 80-90bhp and 124lb/ft. The Holden red 138 (smallest red, fitted to low-spec Toranas) seemed to match these figures, while the 202 (the largest red) has about 220bhp and 195lb/ft. I'm considering putting a 161 into mine somewhere down the track.
Wow, it's almost a novel! Hope this helps.

I have a 161 in my IIA - its perfect. Powerful enough, but not so much as a 202 to destroy the thing.

i honestly dunno about the holden motors, but my 1980 series III GS has the Rover six in it.
Believe the thirsty bit - i get about 13L/100km at best and about 20L/100km at worst. (I have been led to believe that fitting a different carby can help with this without affecting performance however - perhaps someone else can advise?)
Top cruising speed without overdrive is about 90-95km hour at full noise. with overdrive you'll manage 110km on a very flat piece of highway.In a series, I don't think you'd wanna go much faster.
Cold Starts are a little bit touchy, although she always turns over (with the choke, when needed).
Overall I've done about 6000km since getting her running and its about time for a good tune - I reckon she's over-rich at the moment.
Not burning much oil at all though - although the gearbox has a bit of a seep...

Not much help I know, but....

Cant you find a TD5 or V8 to drop in it

Perhaps on a more serious note - over here the 2.25 NA Diesels are more favoured than the 2.25 4 cyl petrol for that motor.

I had a Holden 202, and went back to the 2.25 Rover petrol, and ever since I've really missed the Holden. Simple, still lots of parts around, nice amount of power that can pull the higher gearing the 4-cylinder can't, and even though I was a bit ham-fisted I never did break anything!

I wouldn't touch the Rover 6 for anything. It's got a terrible reputation and parts are getting extremely hard to find.

A 202 has 135hp in the passenger car version. A 202 in 3300X spec (Torana GTR with XU1 option) has a good bit more and expertly prepared race versions had up to 300 hp. These latter would not be much use in a 4WD. The basic red engine is built for passenger & light commercial service and spend their lives poking around town and some highway cruising mostly between 1500-3000 rpm. They will live at high rpm's if properly prepared (see XU1).
I would fit bigger valves and hardened seats, twin 1 3/4" SU's, 186S exhaust headers or extractors feeding twin 2 1/4" exhaust system, high performance aftermarket hydraulic lifters and valve springs, and a suitable camshaft. The cam grinders can recommend this. A high volume oil pump and engine oil cooler with cross drilled and flute relieved crank, full balance job. If you get really serious with a red Holden, get the fully counter balanced crank and Starfire rods out of a Blue 12 port engine. any decent crankshaft shop will modify this crank to fit a red engine. Do this properly and you will not need an overdrive as the engine will quite happily cruise at 4000+ rpm.

Thanks Brian. My only question is, how would that tuning feel in slow off road work? My Forward Control has already been fitted with a normal (not special low-geared) transmission so I wouldn't need an overdrive, and it currently wears 8.25x16 tyres (though I wouldn't mind fitting the original 9.00x16 size later if I could find some at a reasonable price). High speed cruising ability would be great, but only if it doesn't hunt or anything too much in low range. Ultimately, is the 161 Holden the wrong choice for this use?