Thread: A-Frame Vs 4 Link Rear

Are you racing this thing?

If it is sloppy in the rear end then it could be more the springs or shocks if you have already done the bushes.

Why is it you are going to Patrol stuff, is it just to get rid of the slop (which if those parts are not working as they are meant to)it wont or is it because you need stronger drivetrain?

Just seems like it is a bit over kill for what is in your sig as a stock Disco.

Why not just fit some Maxi axels, Mac 4 pinion diff centres (or lockers) and some Maxi drive flanges, get some good quality big bore shocks and some higer rated springs, bump up the rear tyre pressure a bit to stiffen them and see where you are then.

If it still doesnt work you could then sell it all again and then do your conversion, I say this as doing a conversion like this has heaps of little stuff that most people dont even think about and will take twice as long as you think it will and cost twice as much unless you have done it before and you know what to expect.

Dont rely on what you read on the net, go and find someone who has done it and talk to them face to face and have a look for your self before you start is the best advice I could give you.

Info doesn't get any better than Pirate, and without doubt I would argue that due to the calibre of people on there and their questioning of everything, that you will get a better response than from any regular person that has done it.

What do you actually mean by roll? Are you looking for more of an increasing roll resistance like what produced by radius arms? If so, then it may be worth checking out the disco2 geometry. If you're not after heaps and heaps of flex its a very well balanced setup, much better than the classics with A-frames, but at the expense of outright articulation. I just cant but help think that by going to a 4 link setup that you will increase the slop in the suspension because the forces through the bushes will increase, and particularly with lateral location of the axle happening through triangulation, and bush deformation will be accentuated through axle movement. The A frame is a pretty solid setup. But, doesn't the Patrol rear setup as a 5 link anyway, and I would have expected this to be a very good setup to bring over anyway, even if the axle is located from the standard Rover mounting points + a panhard.

Originally Posted by mcrover

Are you racing this thing?

If it is sloppy in the rear end then it could be more the springs or shocks if you have already done the bushes.

Why is it you are going to Patrol stuff, is it just to get rid of the slop (which if those parts are not working as they are meant to)it wont or is it because you need stronger drivetrain?

Just seems like it is a bit over kill for what is in your sig as a stock Disco.

Why not just fit some Maxi axels, Mac 4 pinion diff centres (or lockers) and some Maxi drive flanges, get some good quality big bore shocks and some higer rated springs, bump up the rear tyre pressure a bit to stiffen them and see where you are then.

If it still doesnt work you could then sell it all again and then do your conversion, I say this as doing a conversion like this has heaps of little stuff that most people dont even think about and will take twice as long as you think it will and cost twice as much unless you have done it before and you know what to expect.

Dont rely on what you read on the net, go and find someone who has done it and talk to them face to face and have a look for your self before you start is the best advice I could give you.

The disco is not stock - the sig is a bit of a joke.
It will be raced probably next year.
The advice about the diffs is good - but I already knew that.
I'm sick of polishing turds.

The conversion is all sussed except the rear upper links - its already started.

As for the comments about talking to people - as I said I have done it.
The guys I have talked to know their stuff, its just that some of the comments where conflicting.

I have a theory, but I want to hear what other people have said.

Cheers
Dave

I bought a '96 Disco that was like yours,it still had it's original shocks,springs etc and it was sloppy and ill handling.I fitted Koni's all round,sway bar bushes,and chassis bushes and she as good as new.Replacing the diff and re-designing the suspension because of worn parts is overkill.It didn't have these problems from new so it is not a design problem.Patrol diffs aren't a upgrade either,my mates blew two towing our old shooting buggy around the bush,my defender towed it just as far no worries.He got a new center straight away twice,they are a stock item,enough said. Pat

Originally Posted by Slunnie

Info doesn't get any better than Pirate, and without doubt I would argue that due to the calibre of people on there and their questioning of everything, that you will get a better response than from any regular person that has done it.

What do you actually mean by roll? Are you looking for more of an increasing roll resistance like what produced by radius arms? If so, then it may be worth checking out the disco2 geometry. If you're not after heaps and heaps of flex its a very well balanced setup, much better than the classics with A-frames, but at the expense of outright articulation. I just cant but help think that by going to a 4 link setup that you will increase the slop in the suspension because the forces through the bushes will increase, and particularly with lateral location of the axle happening through triangulation, and bush deformation will be accentuated through axle movement. The A frame is a pretty solid setup. But, doesn't the Patrol rear setup as a 5 link anyway, and I would have expected this to be a very good setup to bring over anyway, even if the axle is located from the standard Rover mounting points + a panhard.

Hi slunnie.
I was certainly not questioning the likes of pirate - only the people I have talked to.
The roll is more slop / lateral movement in the back end.
Your theory about the bush deflection is what I have been thinking about and believe to be the case.
I don't want to touch the 5-link patrol rear end, it's too much mucking around to retro fit to a rover as the rear of the chassis is completely different. I believe the a-frame is a better setup. I have driven a patrol that I have raced in alot, i personally don't like it.

Cheers.

Now we have abit more info it makes sense.Why don't you look at what they use in the UK,they have been racing them for a long time.There's no point re-inventing the wheel. Pat

Originally Posted by PAT303

I bought a '96 Disco that was like yours,it still had it's original shocks,springs etc and it was sloppy and ill handling.I fitted Koni's all round,sway bar bushes,and chassis bushes and she as good as new.Replacing the diff and re-designing the suspension because of worn parts is overkill.It didn't have these problems from new so it is not a design problem.Patrol diffs aren't a upgrade either,my mates blew two towing our old shooting buggy around the bush,my defender towed it just as far no worries.He got a new center straight away twice,they are a stock item,enough said. Pat

Thanks but one bad experience with a Nissan diff doesn't make them 'not an upgrade' - thats almost the 'Nissan Mentality' towards LR
(no offense )

Cheers
Dave.

Originally Posted by DaveS3

Hi slunnie.
I was certainly not questioning the likes of pirate - only the people I have talked to.
The roll is more slop / lateral movement in the back end.
Your theory about the bush deflection is what I have been thinking about and believe to be the case.
I don't want to touch the 5-link patrol rear end, it's too much mucking around to retro fit to a rover as the rear of the chassis is completely different. I believe the a-frame is a better setup. I have driven a patrol that I have raced in alot, i personally don't like it.

Cheers.

Oh no, I realise that Dave, you've been around for a long time. It was more directed at McRover who probably hasn't been on Pirate.

Is it possible to setup an A-frame with Rose joints at the chassis end perhaps... if the rose joint will take loading like that in terms of direction??? It doesn't get any more locked up than this???? Then run the A-frame to a factory ball joint at the diff???