Torque setting method

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Of course the first Griffon engined Spitfires outperformed the Merlin engined ones - the Griffon was not fitted until it outperformed the Merlin, which was later than planned (perhaps helped by the fact that the Merlin was already in production not only in the UK but by Packard in USA and tooling up for production in Sydney).

On the direction of rotation, do you know whether the engine turned in the opposite direction or the gear box was different? The Griffon, being intended to replace the Merlin was designed to fit a larger capacity in the same space, so a complete gearbox redesign was needed and may have involved an arrangement that changed the output rotation.

Most single engine Griffon installations, including Spitfires, used contrarotating propellers. Over 2000hp on a small single propeller aircraft causes real handling problems on takeoff and particularly for a plane like the Spitfire with a very narrow main gear track. (the rotating slipstream causes the rudder to be far more effective in one direction, the torque reaction causes a higher load on one wheel than the other, and when the tail is lifted or the prop speed increases gyroscopic effects try to turn the aircraft; unfortunately all these effects operate in the same direction)

John

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I know it's getting a bit OT, but it would be good to find out the detailed history of the subsequent RR ic engine development (which was overtaken by advances in jet turbine technology), e.g. the 2 stroke Merlin (called the Crecy), the 2nd generation Eagle and the Clyde..... there's a little bit on the net but no real detail that I've been able to find.

Laurie

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Originally Posted by 87County

I know it's getting a bit OT, but it would be good to find out the detailed history of the subsequent RR ic engine development (which was overtaken by advances in jet turbine technology), e.g. the 2 stroke Merlin (called the Crecy), the 2nd generation Eagle and the Clyde..... there's a little bit on the net but no real detail that I've been able to find.

Laurie

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The references I have are "A History of Aircraft Piston Engines", Herschel Smith, Sunflower Press, 1986 (fairly rare, but probably available) and "The Power to Fly", L.J.K. Setright, 1971 (very rare, S/H copies $500+).

The Crecy was abandoned before the end of the war, and the other engines were little more than proposals, with prototypes, as during the war all efforts went into the Merlin and Griffon after the Exe was abandoned (probably because developing it would have interfered with production and development of the Griffon), and after the war they put all their efforts into turbine and turboprop engines - before 1950 both turbine and turboprop engines were in production at Rolls Royce.

Napier persisted a little longer, and the Sabre is reputed to have produced over 5000hp in a racing aircraft (which crashed on its first flight). However, they failed in their attempts to interest anyone in the Nomad, which was a turbo-compounded diesel which claimed better fuel efficiency than anything prior to the big high bypass turbofans, but compared to them was immensely complex.

John

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

The references I have are "A History of Aircraft Piston Engines", Herschel Smith, Sunflower Press, 1986 (fairly rare, but probably available) and "The Power to Fly", L.J.K. Setright, 1971 (very rare, S/H copies $500+).

The Crecy was abandoned before the end of the war, and the other engines were little more than proposals, with prototypes, as during the war all efforts went into the Merlin and Griffon after the Exe was abandoned (probably because developing it would have interfered with production and development of the Griffon), and after the war they put all their efforts into turbine and turboprop engines - before 1950 both turbine and turboprop engines were in production at Rolls Royce.

Napier persisted a little longer, and the Sabre is reputed to have produced over 5000hp in a racing aircraft (which crashed on its first flight). However, they failed in their attempts to interest anyone in the Nomad, which was a turbo-compounded diesel which claimed better fuel efficiency than anything prior to the big high bypass turbofans, but compared to them was immensely complex.

John

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Thanks for that John - I'll make a note of those books.

Yes, it seems that increasing complexity spells the death-knell for many development lines, (I'm thinking of how complex the last generation of mazda/nissan/mitsu carbies got before they had to go to fuel inection).

Laurie

John,

those books are listed on the net for sale overseas, but as you said, quite expensive

also, a brief summary of the Crecy here Rolls-Royce Crecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

L

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Originally Posted by 87County

John,

those books are listed on the net for sale overseas, but as you said, quite expensive

also, a brief summary of the Crecy here Rolls-Royce Crecy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

L

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I have found quite a few references in my library. I will start a new thread in Technical Chatter.

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Originally Posted by 87County

John,

those books are listed on the net for sale overseas, but as you said, quite expensive
.......
L

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Yes, I know. I keep telling my kids not to just chuck my books out when I am gone - some of them are worth a lot of money, and it is not always obvious which ones!

John

maybe someone needs to try fitting a Griffon or Merlin into a Landy............;):p

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Originally Posted by LOVEMYRANGIE

maybe someone needs to try fitting a Griffon or Merlin into a Landy............;):p

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Reckon the LT95 would handle it?

John

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Reckon the LT95 would handle it?

John

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Dunno, but I reckon if you welded it into the right gear you may have a chance!

:cool: