Caution with E10 fuel

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22nd June 2010, 05:32 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDNSW

I wonder how long that situation will last?

John

Well, hopefully there will be a state election before the idiots in Macquarie Street can ~~totally screw~~ legislate all fuels contain ethanol.
22nd June 2010, 10:00 PM
hoadie72

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnx205

My 1973 Series III showed no ill effects after about 200,000 km of running on E10. The components might not have been specifically designed for E10, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't handle it. I have done about a quarter of a million kilometres in 1973 and 1988 vehicles and have not seen any of the problems that theoretically could occur.

A few years back, I was assured by several friends and I repeatedly heard from various other sources that I would "get 50 to 100km extra out of each tank" if I used premium unleaded. I tried three tanks of premium in my 1988 Camry and kept careful records of the fuel consumption. I continued to get exactly the same consumption that I had been getting for the previous five years, mostly on E10.

Some engines may give better power or economy on 95. A lot won't. I think that most engines, especially older engines that are quite happy with ordinary unleaded or E10 will get absolutely no benefit from 95.

A lot of people are panicking unnecessarily about E10.

After reading BP's brochure at my local service station I did exactly the same thing - ran 3 tanks on 95, and 3 on 98 and did not see any difference in fuel economy. Why? Probably because my engine doesn't have a knock sensor or the ability to adjust the timing accordingly...

The BP on my way home from work stopped selling regular 91 RON fuel and replaced it with "Maximum E10" about 3 years ago so I now run E10 exclusively. No problems what so ever.
22nd June 2010, 11:20 PM
p38arover

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

Fresh E10 is pretty safe, even in OPE, but kept for any length of time the ethanol's hygroscopic nature can cause problems, and most OPE manufacturers recommend against any more than 10% ethanol, voiding warranty with any fuel running more ethanol than that.

OPE?

:confused:
22nd June 2010, 11:22 PM
p38arover

Quote:

Originally Posted by vnx205

My 1973 Series III showed no ill effects after about 200,000 km of running on E10.

Crikey! You've either done a lot of km recently or been running E10 for a very long time!

Were you a Bogas customer?
23rd June 2010, 12:26 AM
Fluids

Quote:

Originally Posted by p38arover

OPE?

:confused:

Outdoor Power Equipment

As a side note, we've had discussions with Honda about E10 vs Premium in all the 4 stroke engines, and they reccomend NOT to use Premium as it has a tendancy to coke up the cyclinder head and piston unless the machine is working hard (ie:having it's neck wrung) ... a 5.5hp Honda lawn mower engine does not work hard.

They rec' E10 and a max' fuel storage period of 30 days.

We're having issues with machines already with fuel systems containing old fuel ... and E10 in older machines will strip the deposits out of the fuel system causing carby problems.

Look into using fuel stabilizer in fuel if it needs to be stored for more than 30 days ... like fire pumps and generators especially, that have to sit idle for long periods ready to go at a moments notice.

I had a 5kva Honda inverter gen' come in today ... been idle for 3yrs with same fuel in the tank ... nope, won't start.

Also, store your tank FULL to reduce/remove the air space ... less air, less oxidization.

Kev..
23rd June 2010, 07:56 AM
PhilipA

I guess my main gripe with E10 is reduced fuel economy.
I have always used ULP in my newly bought Honda Jazz Vti 1.5.

With ULP I regularly got indicated 6.5 L per 100Kms measured on the consumption meter. Last 2 tanks with E10 have been 6.8-7.0 L per 100Kms with similar use. That is 4.5% or more economy drop.

While theoretically the drop should only be 3% , in practice it seems to be more.
And I think Shell have increased the price difference for 95 also . I did not take too much notice but it seemed to now be more than the 8 cents it was.
BTW, no one ever answered the question on whether in NSW the wholesalers buy cheaper say 89RON base petrol to blend the Ethanol into to now get 91 RON, seeing they do not now have to have 91 RON ULP fuel anyway. Used to be they just added ethanol to 91 but now no need for 91 and the E10 pump says 91.
I bet we don't get any benefit and the government has no idea.
Regards Philip A
23rd June 2010, 05:25 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluids

Outdoor Power Equipment

As a side note, we've had discussions with Honda about E10 vs Premium in all the 4 stroke engines, and they reccomend NOT to use Premium as it has a tendancy to coke up the cyclinder head and piston unless the machine is working hard (ie:having it's neck wrung) ... a 5.5hp Honda lawn mower engine does not work hard.

They rec' E10 and a max' fuel storage period of 30 days.

[snip]

Kev..

That's interesting, considering the fuel companies are claiming that 98 RON PULP in particular runs 'cleaner' than 'ordinary' fuel.

It's all I've run in our mower and trimmer (both Honda's) so it'll be interesting to see what they are like inside when I pop the heads one day.

The mower's an HRU19RPU and a UMK425 trimmer, so any tips ? :D
(I run the HRU197 air cleaner ;) )
23rd June 2010, 05:55 PM
B92 8NW

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

That's interesting, considering the fuel companies are claiming that 98 RON PULP in particular runs 'cleaner' than 'ordinary' fuel.

It's all I've run in our mower and trimmer (both Honda's) so it'll be interesting to see what they are like inside when I pop the heads one day.

The mower's an HRU19RPU and a UMK425 trimmer, so any tips ? :D
(I run the HRU197 air cleaner ;) )

I took the head of a B&S recently that I always use 98 in and it was pretty carboned up after eight years use. BS advise decarbonising every 300hours.
23rd June 2010, 09:27 PM
Fluids

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick130

That's interesting, considering the fuel companies are claiming that 98 RON PULP in particular runs 'cleaner' than 'ordinary' fuel.

It's all I've run in our mower and trimmer (both Honda's) so it'll be interesting to see what they are like inside when I pop the heads one day.

The mower's an HRU19RPU and a UMK425 trimmer, so any tips ? :D
(I run the HRU197 air cleaner ;) )

.... 'cept if you look closley at those 2 engines Rick, they DON'T have a head :eek:

They are a uni-cyliner ... like a chainsaw or 2 stroke b/c :p ... have to split the crankcase to get to the "head" ;)

I'd be very interested in the condition of the upper cylinder area if you ever split them ... I've never had reason to split one yet, and I've always just run std ULP in mine (1990 HRU194 ... GXV120 - cast iron lined cylinder ... yours is the GCV-160 alloy bore).

The UMK is probably working harder than the mower.

Tips ? Clean oil at 1/2 the rec' intervals, and clean air ... the 197 air cleaner is a good move ! ;) .... clean the foam & re-oil more often than not.

Kev..
23rd June 2010, 10:31 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fluids

.... 'cept if you look closley at those 2 engines Rick, they DON'T have a head :eek:

[snip]

Tips ? Clean oil at 1/2 the rec' intervals, and clean air ... the 197 air cleaner is a good move ! ;) .... clean the foam & re-oil more often than not.

Kev..

Well, they're Honda's, I've never had reason to even touch them except for normal servicing, oh, except the trimmer's had the spark screen removed :angel:

Kev, are they a clamshell style or separate cylinder/crankcase ?
I've never really looked closely, it's only a mower and trimmer after all. :D

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