Caution with E10 fuel

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Originally Posted by rick130

Well, they're Honda's, I've never had reason to even touch them except for normal servicing, oh, except the trimmer's had the spark screen removed :angel:

Kev, are they a clamshell style or separate cylinder/crankcase ?
I've never really looked closely, it's only a mower and trimmer after all. :D

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Rick, both engines are a clamshell style ... cylinder barrell/head & 1/2 a crankcase is 1 peice, and the other crankcase 1/2 is the other peice. Have a look at the side of the 19R and you'll see the crankcase join at a 45deg angle ... no gaskets, all 3 bond liquid gaskets ... crankcases, rocker covers, etc ...

My 194's survived on a lack of attention, forgotten oil changes, dirty air cleaners, loaned to contractors and mates ... for 20yrs, and it still starts 1st time :eek: ... it's a cast iron lined cylinder though ... the alloy bore engines suffer way more on dirty oil .... I think the 19R's spec'd at 50hrs oil .... do you mow 1/2hr per week 52weeks a year ? Do 1 oil change per year !

Kev..

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Originally Posted by Fluids

Rick, both engines are a clamshell style ... cylinder barrell/head & 1/2 a crankcase is 1 peice, and the other crankcase 1/2 is the other peice. Have a look at the side of the 19R and you'll see the crankcase join at a 45deg angle ... no gaskets, all 3 bond liquid gaskets ... crankcases, rocker covers, etc ...

My 194's survived on a lack of attention, forgotten oil changes, dirty air cleaners, loaned to contractors and mates ... for 20yrs, and it still starts 1st time :eek: ... it's a cast iron lined cylinder though ... the alloy bore engines suffer way more on dirty oil .... I think the 19R's spec'd at 50hrs oil .... do you mow 1/2hr per week 52weeks a year ? Do 1 oil change per year !

Kev..

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Cheers Kev.
Ah, I remember the 45* split in the crankase once and thinking "clamshell".
:cheers:

BTW, can you believe the things get Motul 300V 5W-30 ?

naa, neither can I, but I sort of do that type of thing at times.... the saws get Motul 800 2T and I think the 5HP B&S genny has Delvac 1 in it :angel:

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Originally Posted by rick130

Cheers Kev.
Ah, I remember the 45* split in the crankase once and thinking "clamshell".
:cheers:

BTW, can you believe the things get Motul 300V 5W-30 ?

naa, neither can I, but I sort of do that type of thing at times.... the saws get Motul 800 2T and I think the 5HP B&S genny has Delvac 1 in it :angel:

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I used to put Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 in my mower, now I seem to have undergone a process of retrograde tightarsery. Whatever crap lying around is fine. Likewise stopped using Delvac 1. Plain old RX Super from the truck shop. Transmax Z by any crappy mineral ATF.

The mower glazed like mad with synthetic too, which is why I pulled the head off.

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Originally Posted by B92 8NW

I used to put Shell Helix Ultra 5W30 in my mower, now I seem to have undergone a process of retrograde tightarsery. Whatever crap lying around is fine. Likewise stopped using Delvac 1. Plain old RX Super from the truck shop. Transmax Z by any crappy mineral ATF.

The mower glazed like mad with synthetic too, which is why I pulled the head off.

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RX is good stuff, just use 'normal' change intervals.

I've dropped D1 too, saved some $ and gives me more money for wine and chocolate, but it just shows how long it's been since I did an oil change in the old Briggs :o

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Originally Posted by rick130

Cheers Kev.
Ah, I remember the 45* split in the crankase once and thinking "clamshell".
:cheers:

BTW, can you believe the things get Motul 300V 5W-30 ?

naa, neither can I, but I sort of do that type of thing at times.... the saws get Motul 800 2T and I think the 5HP B&S genny has Delvac 1 in it :angel:

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... and I should be preaching to you about oils!? :eek: :angel:

They will love you for it! ... just because their not Land Rovers doesn't mean you should treat them with contempt! ;)

10w-30 for the Honda's .... 5w is a bit thin ! :wasntme:

Kev.. :p

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Originally Posted by B92 8NW

The mower glazed like mad with synthetic too, which is why I pulled the head off.

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I looked into synthetics for a fleet of Honda generators for a client who's running them 24/7 (they refuel them running! :mad:) .... they were doing about 1000Hrs (40 days) between oil changes :eek::eek: (spec' is 100Hrs - ) in a tropical climate.

Spoke with Honda about synthetic oil to extend the oil drain intervals, and they specifically said "no synthetics!" in their air cooled small engines ... will glaze the bore.

Client advised to do an oil change every 4 days .... :D ... was not happy :mad:

Kev..

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Originally Posted by Fluids

[snip]
10w-30 for the Honda's .... 5w is a bit thin ! :wasntme:

Kev.. :p

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Now, now, don't wind me up :lol2:

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Originally Posted by Fluids

I looked into synthetics for a fleet of Honda generators for a client who's running them 24/7 (they refuel them running! :mad:) .... they were doing about 1000Hrs (40 days) between oil changes :eek::eek: (spec' is 100Hrs - ) in a tropical climate.

Spoke with Honda about synthetic oil to extend the oil drain intervals, and they specifically said "no synthetics!" in their air cooled small engines ... will glaze the bore.

Client advised to do an oil change every 4 days .... :D ... was not happy :mad:

Kev..

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You can't extend oil drains on little engines as there isn't an (effective) oil filter, but I can't understand why they would glaze bores with a syn oil ? (and I hate that term, as what is a synthetic oil these days ?)

Bore glazing (if it is isn't actual wear) is usually a varnish like coating from too much light load/light throttle/static revs running.

I wonder if it's possibly a reaction of oil (possibly some of the friction modifiers) and the unburnt fuel in the ring land area at low loads ?

Years ago I looked after a small fleet of B&S's on a refrigerated truck fleet, some old side valve engines and newer Vanguards and it took a lot of convincing that the client needed to do oil changes weekly on them. They were running at least 40 hours/week at that stage.
Thank God for the oil guard switches too on the later model ones, I lost count of the call outs for engines not starting.
"have you checked the oil level ?"
"Yes, we do that every day....."
Guess what I found every time :D

Prior to the oil guard switches we were rebuilding or replacing engines every twelve months at a minimum.

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Originally Posted by rick130

You can't extend oil drains on little engines as there isn't an (effective) oil filter, but I can't understand why they would glaze bores with a syn oil ? (and I hate that term, as what is a synthetic oil these days ?)

Bore glazing (if it is isn't actual wear) is usually a varnish like coating from too much light load/light throttle/static revs running.

I wonder if it's possibly a reaction of oil (possibly some of the friction modifiers) and the unburnt fuel in the ring land area at low loads ?

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I think my problem came from running Helix from brand new, it never got a chance to bed in properly. That and from light load light throttle. How does one make an engine work hard on a suburban block:D?

I think the domestic use service interval is check oil every ten years, replace every 20. I'm tempted to fill mine up with Ex-300Tdi sump oil and see how long it lasts:angel:.

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Originally Posted by rick130

I wonder if it's possibly a reaction of oil (possibly some of the friction modifiers) and the unburnt fuel in the ring land area at low loads ?

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... but you can still glaze a bore running std oil ?

Kev...

(this btw has nothing to do with E10 fuels ! :cool: )