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I'm with Isuzurover here. Waste sump oil is nasty stuff. It is a toxic carcinogen that is also an environmental hazard, and has a bigger impact on kids than adults. There is no valid route for consumer re-use of it, which is why I think it is irresponsible for companies that sell oil to cancel return programmes. If k-mart take returns, they will get some extra business.
/Damien
OK. Let's take this further. What happens to oil when it has been 'returned'?
Is it really cost effective for companies to store, process, store again, and then sell a more expensive and recycled oil product on the open market? Perhaps that is the reason that companies are closing their return outlets (inlets??), there's no money in it for them.
So what happens to it then, if it is too expensive to recycle. Where is it stored or dumped? What happens to the distillates and filtrated particles after refinement? Those are the really harmful things I should think, and how are those now highly concentrated and therefore more dangerous compounds addressed? Are they summarily dumped in some land fill in the desert?
I am quite willing to be proven wrong on this, but it takes more than someone to jump up and down, calling me irresponsible, but with no quality argument or evidence for me to change my mind.
At this point in time, I see the reuse of old oil as a protective agent on my series as a more environmentally sustainable option than using it in a land fill.
Alan
Disco2 - Your method of rust proofing is meant to be done with clean oil and diesel. Used sump oil is nasty stuff, and dont quote me on this but Im sure used sump oil eats rubber bushes.
Im about to finish of a full fluid service today, so Ill have about 25L to dump also. I think the Caboolture (on Bribie Road) takes it for a small charge.
Actually, my vehicle is already sealed with dinitrol and I paint it over those parts where it is scraped away or removed from stone hits. So the idea of the oil is purely supplementary.
Aaron, when you drop it off, perhaps you could ask what they do to it?
Alan
OK. Here's some info.
I have just spoken to one of the large councils here and got put through to one of their specialist guys who deals with recycling. They collect up various hazardous liquids and every now and then a local company who specialises in processing waste oils collects the oil products. They do about 3000-4000 litres per month from that one refuse station and there are several large stations about the city, plus all the engineering and vehicle servicing outlets (a lot of oil in other words).
He gave me the name of the company that collects it. I phoned them and asked what they do to it.
50% is used for heating in glass houses and wood treatment kilns.
The rest is recycled and sold off. Although there is very little market for it since most modern engines don't take to it well and there are lot of synthetic oils being recycled too.
In any event, whether it is recycled or burned, all the oil is processed/refined to remove various non-combustable and harmful by-products prior to selling. The sludge (the really harmful stuff in concentrate) is mixed with saw dust and dumped in land fills.
So, the only valid argument I have seen so far against using to prevent rust on my series is that it 'might' damage my bushes (thanks Aaron, I will follow up on that). The net result is that putting it on the bottom of my series is of greater environmental benefit because it *might* distribute oil in a form that is *not* concentrated - but then again it is a series and it *will* distribute oil anyway.
Alan
Your initial post talked about putting it into a "garden sprayer" - if you are lucky then 20% will stay on the vehicle and 80% will be left (dumped) on the ground - and worse still, in the bush - since you mentioned doing it over lunch on a trip.Quote:
Originally Posted by disco2hse
In Australia used oil is usually burnt in cement kilns or recycled for some other use.
Ahh, I thought you might say that, but over here we have this stuff. It's called plastic sheet ;) :pQuote:
Originally Posted by isuzurover
But 80% on the ground. My aim's not that bad :eek:
Alan
Years ago you could buy Marefine oil for using in your engine. It was used sump oil that had be cleaned and refined to make it usable in the sump again. However I do not know of any one doing this today. I worked a while in agroforestry, and they cleaned up sump oil to use as chainbar oil for their seven chainsaws. See post elsewhere where I mentioned this.
Hi John, that was one of the things I talked about with the 'specialists'. the general consensus was that the older engined cars were ok with this, but newer technologies have much lower tolerances and so there is now no market for reprocessed oils in the consumer market.
Some more info about the effects of oils on rubber:
In Nigeria latex (natural rubber) has been used to treat crude oil spills. The rubber causes the oil to degrade into the oil if it is in slurry form. That is, the rubber causes a biological degradation in the oil.
Rubber has a long, zig-zagged string-molecule, a polymer. Pure molecular stringiness is not enough for a substance to be solid. A pure long-string molecule often appears as a goopy, sticky, viscous liquid. For the polymer to be solid, "cross-linking" between strings is required, so the strings won't slip past each other (that is what "vulcanisation" does, it adds cross-links.)
Rubber is a hydrocarbon, so any hydrocarbon liquid (e.g. motor oil) dissolves into it well, and will be a either a plasticizer or dissolver. The oils which cannot finish dissolving rubber will all be plasticisers. Motor oil has various additives, some of which will be strong solvents and plasticisers, not to mention what is put in there when engines are run. The more plasticiser in rubber, the stretchier and weaker and tackier it will be. This is why sometimes when you replace rubber parts the vehicle it has an unpleasant and goopy texture and sticks to your fingers.
Some rubbers are never soft unless they add plasticiser. Bushes are hard rubbers with little or no elasticity, therefore they will be less prone to the plasticising effects of having been in contact with oils, but they may be prone to being dissolved.In principle, a cross-linked polymer can never be completely dissolved by a liquid, not without breaking molecules. Butyl rubber and heat vulcanised silicone rubbers are oil resistant.
The effects of amines as dispersants, corrosion inhibitors and oxidation inhibitors on rubber compounds (highly saturated butadiene-nitrile [HNBR] and fluoroelastomer [FKM]) under normal (field) conditions varied, and were affected by levels of aeration and water. While there is an effect it could not be predicted.
Soooo,
It is the oil that causes rubber to change its state, but additives and other compounds can have a material effect. New oil contains additives and used oil contains additives and other by-products from running the engine. Both new and used oil will cause rubber to change its state and have other material effects. Therefore it doesn't matter whether you use new or used oil, both can affect rubber.
But, rubbers with fewer plasticisers, vulcanised rubber, butyl, and silicone rubbers, are more resistant to those effects. These include such components as bushes. Thus using oil should have limited effect on bushes.
Alan
Our local recycling depot ( Banyule) took all the 100 odd litres i had saved up, they have no limit on oil.:DQuote:
Originally Posted by waynep