Weight distribution hitch

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29th April 2010, 10:43 AM
Rosscoe68

there seems to be a bit of a conflict on ppls feelings here. i reply mostly in relation to SLS equipped as thats what my experience is with.
i think both sides will agree that getting the weight behind the rear axle down and getting it further forward on the tow vehicle is a good thing. however my opinion and some others is that should be done by correctly balancing the caravan or trailer rather than fitting devices to try and coverup/manipulate an existing problem with TOO MUCH downweight on the towbar.
i have towed in many various guises and it astounds me that anyone can think a loaded badly van tows better with a WDH than a correctly loaded van without WDH.

i did however see recently an instance where i believe the WDH was particularly well used. a fwd camry towing a well loaded caravan but due to fwd, the car tended to spin tyres in wet. WDH reduced front tyre spin, fair call. or buy a rwd or 4wd car even better call.
30th April 2010, 07:28 AM
Grumndriva

[QUOTE=Rosscoe68;1240274]i have towed in many various guises and it astounds me that anyone can think a loaded badly van tows better with a WDH than a correctly loaded van without WDH.

Rosscoe, with respect, I don't think that anyone is saying that. What those who actually have experience towing caravans with and without WDH (and Harlie is right: it is obvious to real caravaners who does and does not have that experience) are saying is that WDH will improve handling and braking, and therefore safety, for the tug and other traffic, particularly with larger vans. From my personal experience with a range of vans up to 21 ft behind my D2, on and off the bitumen, that is a no-brainer. It should go without saying that proper loading of the van is critical regardless of whether or not a WDH is used. Despite the claim that it is an urban myth, that also applies to the international "rule of thumb" that the weight on the tow ball should be around 7 to 12 per cent of the total mass of the van (for simplicity let's call it the 10% rule). Good vans are designed to provide this sort of weight distribution with proper loading, i.e. with tanks full and most of the remaining movable mass close to the axles.

That much is very easy to prove, either with an experimental rig as with the Bath University studies, or in practice with a real van. Just take a spare pair of undies if you try the no weight on the towball idea and go above 30 to 40 kph with a typical van.

It is also unwise to generalise statements about the design of caravans, which range from (for example) 13 feet long with a single axle to 30 feet long with three axles, which may be low mounted for bitumen work, or high mounted for dirt road or off road use, which may be on sophisticated independent suspension or on simple leaf springs with beam axles. Above all, they may be built by a properly set up, experienced and competent builder, or by an under capitalsed, inexperienced "johnny come lately". To suggest that Bushtracker, Kedron, Phoenix and similar vans are made just to look good and not to tow well does nothing for the argument because it is so obviously wrong. As with vehicles, there are some vans which are less than ideally designed and some which are not properly loaded.

It is not necessarily correct to extrapolate (too far) experience towing cars or boats to towing vans. There are substantial differences caused by the keel area and weight distribution, which may significantly affect the dynamics of towing.

It has been suggested that Land Rover's D2 tow rating of 3,500 kg with 250 kg on the ball demonstrates that Land Rover does not believe in the "10%" on the tow ball rule, or has somehow screwed up. That isn't a valid argument. It just means that Land Rover engineers have certified the chassis, towbar, suspension and brakes to tow a horizontal weight (e.g. a 4 wheel trailer or another vehicle on its own wheels) of up to 3,500 kg, or to carry a vertical (static) weight of up to 250 kg on the tow ball. The 250 kg vertical limit in practice probably limits safe van weight to somewhere between 2.5 and 3 tonnes.

This is a great forum, and everyone should feel free to express a view, but the problem is that there are probably newcomers to caravaning on here who are looking for safe and practical advice. Sadly, some of the views on this and similar threads here and on other forums are potentially dangerous. Anyone is entitled to disagree with the international "10%" rule or the supposed benefits of WDH, but for the sake of the newcomers to caravaning in particular, but also to those of us with such experience, please provide some sort of supporting evidence or a rational argument to support your counter view. None of us knows so much that we can't learn more.
30th April 2010, 08:51 AM
Tombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by StephenF10

<snip> especially on a D2 with it's stupidly short wheelbase and long rear overhang which increases the effect of any weight on the towball.</snip>

Whilst compared to others the 100" (2540mm) wheelbase is short I would not say it suffers with long rear overhang.
I measured a GU patrol overhang and a cruisers vs the Disco 2 and the D2 has the shortest overhang of the 3 (axle to towball) in fact the Defender even comes close to the same dimensions...

Also the Rovers have a much nicer F-R balance than the other brands. I find they tow very nicely... Even with ridiculous things on the back... As long as its balanced ok...

Heres a pic (I'm still waiting for my Firestones to arrive)
http://gallery.mac.com/rovertech/100...12724607370001

2300kgs - Tows nice and smooth with only a little effect from road surface...
30th April 2010, 09:13 AM
ozscott

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Very nice Cat mate....and nice truck too. She looks pretty high - are they 18s with good sized tyres??? Yours looks a fair bit like mine (perhaps a little more pitched) with my boat on. I will post up some pics when I pick up my old girl from getting the outboard serviced.

Cheers

PS. You will love the Firestones...I am really impressed - best thing I have done to the rig.

PPS. Good to see you got the best colour in LR...

PPPS..Looks like you have the best engine colour choice too...is that a set of Yammy V4's on the the loud end...?
30th April 2010, 09:37 AM
Tombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozscott

Very nice Cat mate....and nice truck too. She looks pretty high - are they 18s with good sized tyres??? Yours looks a fair bit like mine (perhaps a little more pitched) with my boat on. I will post up some pics when I pick up my old girl from getting the outboard serviced.

Cheers

PS. You will love the Firestones...I am really impressed - best thing I have done to the rig.

PPS. Good to see you got the best colour in LR...

PPPS..Looks like you have the best engine colour choice too...is that a set of Yammy V4's on the the loud end...?

Thanks for the kind words Scott...

Yes, the D2 is lifted 4" coils, 33's on the 18's (Reminds me I must do a 'members rides' write-up).

Dropped about 1" in the bum once loaded (gear/food) in disco and the boat hitched up.

I've heard good results from the firestones, So i've ordered 2 sets - a normal set and a set of bags to suit my +4" lift... Will take pics when they get here!

I'm more than happy to tow like this... The D3 we towed it up with was even better......

Niagara Grey is the Disco, Had a Bonatti Deefer too :cool:

And yes, twin 115 V4 Yammies :firedevil:
30th April 2010, 09:38 AM
Tombie

P.S> Nice boat Scott :D
30th April 2010, 10:21 AM
Redback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

The above is an urban myth.

why anyone believes its ok to place THAT much weight on a tow hitch is beyond me,,

Quote:

Originally Posted by seano87

The NSW RTA have a information pamphlet on towing trailers, and in that it even states as a general rule, towball load should be 5-10% total trailer mass.

Which is all a little ridiculous if you have a 3t trailer, I sure wouldn't be wanting up to a 300kg load on the ball. I think 5% is about all it ever should be.

Slightly off topic but still related - at times I tow a rowing boat trailer - 12.5m trailer, 13.5m with rear overhang when loaded, between 2-3t depending on load. Such a trailer is custom made, if it were to be made strictly according to ADR's, the axles have to be so far back that the ball weight was going to be about 450kg unless huge dead weights were put into the rear of the trailer. Needless to say rowing boat trailers are never 'quite' within allowed dimensions... btw I tow that with a S1 Discovery, no load distribution hitch - handles surprisingly well, overall towball load is usually around 150kg. Use polyair bags to maintain levelness.

Seano

I agree with the above.

Set the tow vehicle and van up properly and you'll have no issues.

Baz.
30th April 2010, 10:24 AM
Redback

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tombie2

Thanks for the kind words Scott...

Yes, the D2 is lifted 4" coils, 33's on the 18's (Reminds me I must do a 'members rides' write-up).

Dropped about 1" in the bum once loaded (gear/food) in disco and the boat hitched up.

I've heard good results from the firestones, So i've ordered 2 sets - a normal set and a set of bags to suit my +4" lift... Will take pics when they get here!

I'm more than happy to tow like this... The D3 we towed it up with was even better......

Niagara Grey is the Disco, Had a Bonatti Deefer too :cool:

And yes, twin 115 V4 Yammies :firedevil:

You don't happen to have the part No for those +4" bags do you:D
30th April 2010, 11:03 AM
ozscott

Cheers mate! I have a 93 114 V4 Yam on mine and it just keeps going and going and going....

My Disco is Bonati. The D3 would tow better - more weight and better wheelbase I guess, but the D2 does a good job.

I will post back some pics of the whole thing set up with the bags.

Cheers
30th April 2010, 06:12 PM
Crackerjack

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmkoffice

I agree with Tony, I used to tow a 1.8T Jayco 17' poptop with no need to ever consider a WDH. I added bags to keep the car level and ensured the tow-ball weight was as low as possible. You are allowed 250kg, I kept mine to around 190/200kg by balancing the load in the van, admittedly the van was tandem axle with a ball weight of 175kg empty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Whippy

Ball weight should be 10% of total weight of van so if van is 1.8 ton ball weight should be 180 KG.

Dave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

The above is an urban myth.

why anyone believes its ok to place THAT much weight on a tow hitch is beyond me,,

Quote:

Originally Posted by seano87

The NSW RTA have a information pamphlet on towing trailers, and in that it even states as a general rule, towball load should be 5-10% total trailer mass.

Which is all a little ridiculous if you have a 3t trailer, I sure wouldn't be wanting up to a 300kg load on the ball. I think 5% is about all it ever should be.

Slightly off topic but still related - at times I tow a rowing boat trailer - 12.5m trailer, 13.5m with rear overhang when loaded, between 2-3t depending on load. Such a trailer is custom made, if it were to be made strictly according to ADR's, the axles have to be so far back that the ball weight was going to be about 450kg unless huge dead weights were put into the rear of the trailer. Needless to say rowing boat trailers are never 'quite' within allowed dimensions... btw I tow that with a S1 Discovery, no load distribution hitch - handles surprisingly well, overall towball load is usually around 150kg. Use polyair bags to maintain levelness.

Seano

I have been reading the post with great interest as I posted on another forum about the maximum weight on a Discovery 1 towball, I cannot find any information whatsoever that it should be more than 150kg in relation to Landrover technical and consumer information
So with many vans in Australia weighing in excess of 1500kg, what is the answer?

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