Defender Traction Control

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Originally Posted by rangieman

Yes pull the fuse but that also means you will lose the ABS which is,nt a bad thing off road in my opinion:cool:

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Just to add a bit more to this before i get jumped on , A none ABS car will stop in a shorter distance on dirt than a car with ABS;)

Yes you loose the ability to steer under brakes with out ABS , But im talking in 4wd conditions where speed is not a issue but the ABS braking is:cool:

I've said it before and doubtless I'll say it again..

TC/ABS should be considered as warning devices to let you know that you are approaching the limitations of what you can make the vehicle do.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

For the life of me I can't work out why you'd want to do that. We have TC and F&R lockers in our truck. When you're doing something serious the lockers are engaged and they are great.

HOWEVER - there have been a number of times when I've been just doing stuff in sand, and the car has made a surprise attempt to dig a hole for itself - and then just as it is starting to descend into that hole the TC intervenes and then the car feels as though it is lifting itself out of the hole! How good is that.

I'm very glad we've got TC there as our backup. One day, when you're in the soft sand at Eli Ck, you will pull away and next thing you'll be up to the axles... very embarrassing and totally avoidable.

The reason we fitted diff locks is primarily for mechanical sympathy and capability reasons. If you are in remote areas (say off the track in the Simpson) the TC works very hard. Also, diff locks are easier on the mechanicals as they don't let any slip develop.

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i fully under stand were your coming from,, but its just one of them personal things, i think tc is great ,, it terns a very good car into a exlent 4wder, (as the defender is:p),, but in sand i feel id rather without, the hole simpson trip we had the fuse pulled, and never had one troble,

and out there we had our own test, west side of big red, with tc berly half way, tc off 1m from the top, we still dident make it but we dident bog down untill the very very steep and soft top lip, we even made it ferther then our mates in a tdv8 sport:D:D

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

I've said it before and doubtless I'll say it again..

TC/ABS should be considered as warning devices to let you know that you are approaching the limitations of what you can make the vehicle do.

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That being your opinion:cool: , we all have different opinions and my opinion is ABS can be DANGEROUS on wet slippery down hill slopes , give me a none ABS car in these conditions anytime when braking is needed;)

Im curious, how do you figure that one out?

The only time I had an issue with ABS was on my D1. D2 and Puma are a lot better ABS off road, but you need to drive accordingly.

From my experience, corrugations and gravel are the worst combination with ABS.

Having 1.5t of braked trailer (hydraulic disks) behind makes stopping a breeze though if you crank up the controller output off road.

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

Im curious, how do you figure that one out?

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Simple , it suprises me that you havent worked it out , it is a known fact that a locked wheel builds up dirt or mud in front of it slowing forward motion , As with ABS as soon as a wheel is locked it releases the the brake hence allowing no reduction in forward motion :cool:
So there is lesson # 1

We have done this at work with 2 identical cars one with the ABS fuse removed the other with the ABS intact with a full on braking stop from 80 km/h on the dirt , The none ABS car stopped a good car and a half length before the ABS car , Dont get me wrong ABS has its place as in on road and wet roads not so much off road :cool:

Ive watched a automatic ABS Tdi disco come down a slippery hill that id just gone down in my old manual Tdi Defender and it was scary to watch and be in that disco

Now i have a Td5 Defender with ABS and ive been in some situations with the ABS off road that im not impressed with :eek:

Now this is only my opinion that ive experienced With ABS IN off road conditions :angel:

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Originally Posted by rangieman

Simple , it suprises me that you havent worked it out , it is a known fact that a locked wheel builds up dirt or mud in front of it slowing forward motion , As with ABS as soon as a wheel is locked it releases the the brake hence allowing no reduction in forward motion :cool:
So there is lesson # 1

We have done this at work with 2 identical cars one with the ABS fuse removed the other with the ABS intact with a full on braking stop from 80 km/h on the dirt , The none ABS car stopped a good car and a half length before the ABS car , Dont get me wrong ABS has its place as in on road and wet roads not so much off road :cool:

Ive watched a automatic ABS Tdi disco come down a slippery hill that id just gone down in my old manual Tdi Defender and it was scary to watch and be in that disco

Now i have a Td5 Defender with ABS and ive been in some situations with the ABS off road that im not impressed with :eek:

Now this is only my opinion that ive experienced With ABS IN off road conditions :angel:

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I certainly would not argue that ABS increases stopping distances in vehicles on dirt. I'm pretty sure I can still see the picture in the owners manual of my first ABS equipped car of exactly what you speak of, with a note about increased stopping distances on dirt.

However, in favour of ABS is the fact that you can steer while ABS is functioning. A non ABS car may well stop quicker, but it is also likely to follow the camber into the drain, whereas the ABS equipped car should steer and stay on the road while taking slightly longer to stop.

We're not debating that ABS is far better under emergency conditions than non ABS cars on bitumen though, are we? Surely not.

Another thing to watch is that if you disable the ABS I really doubt your car will be considered roadworthy as you've disabled a very significant part of the safety hardware. Whether this has insurance implications... who knows.

For me... I think I'll keep the ABS in my fender. I acknowledge that in some circumstances it might not work as well... but I'd rather have a slightly increased stopping distance than the potential that an emergency stop could spin the car on dirt and have the family rolling down the road.

nope, not on bitumen just off road....

professional race drivers driving normal cars can under ideal circumstances out brake abs, but only just and not reliabley.

for off road did you repeat the tests with corners or was is straight line braking only....

and as for identical..... there aint no such beast in the automotive world. if youd done it with the same car with the same driver with the abs fuse pulled Id have given you more credit, but a couple of PSI difference in tyre pressure at 80KPH is good for a car length under brakes. faded shocky, different amount of fuel in the tank, hell the misread on the speedo between 2 cars on the same production line can give you up to 5kph difference in real speed over the ground.