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Thread: Lucas ignition amplifier replacement by Bosch 024

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee utey View Post
    Considering that the original module was designed to be "cooled" whilst bolted to a hot distributor, the stock LR heatsink should be fine. I've used quite a few of them without problems.
    Yeah true on the xf it's it that tin box. Plenty of protection but no air flow, surprised they don't cook. I'll probably move the whole setup away from water splash eventually.

    Cheers Jim

  2. #212
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    Hi all I have a 97 Disco1 V8 stock running on petrol only. Original owner. Setup is Bosch coil , Lucas amp (original), Lucas Distributor (original), Magnecore blue ignition leads with Magnecore red coil lead, spark plugs NGK BP5EY (about 40k). Will be replacing with BPR5ES and new rotor.

    Have read the threads and want to do the Bee Utey conversion but have a few questions. Hoping someone can help.

    1. New coil options seem to be Bosch BIC290, MEC717, MEC723 etc but has someone compared the specs for the stock Bosch coil 0221122392 vs the newer options in terms of dwell, current etc so that the upgrade will suite the rest of the system? Or doesn’t it matter? Which is the best coil choice for my setup?
    2. If the pickup leads from the distributor to the new amp are connected red blue as Bee Utey shows will there be any need to touch the distributor. The truck runs.
    3. Is there an electrical connector I can buy and wire to the new amp then just plug in the harness from the distributor. If so where do I get it?
    4. Should my red Magnecore ( 8.5 mm outside Metallic Inductance EMI and RFI Suppressed 2.5mm FM 200T stainless steel conductor) lead from the coil be the same as my spark plug leads blue Magnecore (8 mm outside Metallic Inductance RFI Suppressed 1.75mm CN20 chrome-nickel conductor) or doesn’t matter?
    5. Attached is a picture of my current coil. It was replaced about 15 years ago by the dealer. How do I tell the current part number. Want to check if it is a 0221122392? It doesn’t look like the pics on the internet.

    Thanks.


    9C153EC8-69C6-4310-811C-44302E32A8E5.jpg

  3. #213
    Johndoe is offline AULRO Holiday Reward Points Winner!
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    Could someone inform me please.
    All the wires going to the coil after this conversion please. (Both terminals) (Discovery 1 1994)

    I have assumed this is correct but have no luck so far.
    I understand this is well documented and think i followed procedure.

    Loom near bottom or airbox.
    Loom separates into 2.

    1) Loom with resistor things.
    I think white wire with black stripe is power to coil.
    I think white wire with green stripe is negative to coil.

    2) Other loom bit.
    I think blue red wire goes to + on coil.
    I think the blue wire goes to the - on coil.

    Finally 2 wires from distributor go to amp.
    And 2 wires from coil go to amp.

    Any help in this regard appreciated.

  4. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johndoe View Post
    Could someone inform me please.
    All the wires going to the coil after this conversion please. (Both terminals) (Discovery 1 1994)

    I have assumed this is correct but have no luck so far.
    I understand this is well documented and think i followed procedure.

    Loom near bottom or airbox.
    Loom separates into 2.

    1) Loom with resistor things.
    I think white wire with black stripe is power to coil.
    I think white wire with green stripe is negative to coil.

    2) Other loom bit.
    I think blue red wire goes to + on coil.
    I think the blue wire goes to the - on coil.

    Finally 2 wires from distributor go to amp.
    And 2 wires from coil go to amp.

    Any help in this regard appreciated.
    White wire with black stripe is definitely negative coil. White wire with green stripe is probably positive. red and black wires should be pickup wires from the distributor. Your setup should look something like this:

    https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachmen...-late-coil.jpg

    From the last page of this thread.

  5. #215
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    Thanks Bee Utey for this thread as it has helped heaps.
    I have just finished putting in the Bosch BIM024 module mounted to a 5mm plate of ally for a heat sink as recommended as I hope it's big enough and MEC717 coil into my Rangie aka George and I seems a bit smoother and easier to start but time will tell as he's not on the road yet but I am hoping before the end of the year.




    Trav Man

  6. #216
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    Gday guys,

    I thought I would share my experience with this upgrade, hopefully it might help some of you.

    Previously i had installed the electronic 3 wire distributor with the module on the side of the dizzy. This ran well for 2 years with minimal kms, whilst building up my 110. This motor is a 3.5 running an Edelbrock 500cfm carb.
    On my first long drive out to get a wheel alignment the 110 suffered an ignition module failure. After getting a new module the landy fired back into life for the best part of a half day before the module
    failed again. After that I thought stuff it I will go back to points, so reinstalled the old dizzy.

    Anyway a few years later I came across this thread and bought the module and reinstalled my electronic dizzy and performed the conversion to BIM024. This seemed to run great, however I noticed there was hesitation on the first drive and thought it must of been down to the air gap between the pickup (the dizzy had been in pieces). So checked adjustment and took it for another good drive, all was well. Some friends and I had a journey planned to celebrate no more work for the year and went on 200km pub tour. On leaving the pub the furthest from home the hesitation started again (almost like running on 4 cylinders) After mucking around trying to get it running right I almost conceded defeat. After having something to eat/drink I fired it up again and took it for a thrash and problem was gone.
    So on returning home I once again pulled the dizzy and went back to points to put my mind at ease. As the coil installed was almost new I ruled this out being faulty and order a pick up plate, suspecting this might be the source of the issue. This week reinstalled the pickup and refitted to the engine. On timing up the engine I noticed the timing was switching between the correct timing and being out by around 10deg. The tacho would flicker and at times and show double the rpm. I knew the thing was still cursed and was hacked off. Anyway I was in talks with one of the auto electrical companies we use through work. The old boy use to work for Lucas and explained that some of the 12v lucas coils were built with too thin paper separating the primary and secondary circuits and often the high voltage side would zap in to the low voltage circuit. This made sense and is likely why the lucas module only lasted half a day before failing. So i decided to buy and installed the MEC717. Once installed all issues have now been resolved and the tacho is reading much smoother. Road test has showed no faults and the Bosch module is doing well.

    So to sum things up, make sure the coil is in good nick before carrying out the mod or if you're experiencing issues of repeat module failure, it could be the result of a failing coil. The faulty coil was a Lucas sport 12v coil for what its worth.

    Lastly a photo of the install on my 110.
    20200502_170116.jpg

  7. #217
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    Diagram

    here's the diagram from the Troubleshooting Manual for the record. Note that the second WB wire with a resistor does nothing in an auto

  8. #218
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    RPM spikes

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoClax View Post
    '94 D1a 3.9 auto based vehicle with 4.9 stroked HiComp engine running the standard 14CUX (with a MAF intercept to retune fuelling). Alternator is a P38A 120A genuine item, if that has an effect...

    For many years I've been running the standard Lucas dizzy with the BIM024 module conversion and a MEC717 transformer coil. I have just swapped out the dizzy for a new 'Scorcher' unit (ie. Bosch HEI) hooked up to the same MEC717 coil. Brand new, made in Australia, custom graphed, etc. New BIM024 module came in the dizzy. All genuine parts.

    I still have the same issue where I am getting a dirty rpm signal to the engine computer. The Lucas had this and now the Bosch as well. When I log the signal I see rpm spikes here and there during normal running (but doesn't show any symptoms), and this is more prevalent when the engine is wound out past 4,000rpm under load. This manifests at higher rpm as the engine computer reading an over-rev condition momentarily and cutting the injectors. It's seeing rpm spikes of well over 10,000rpm which trips the factory limiter. Logged data on a mate's D1a manual showed the same dirty rpm signal, however the manuals have a higher >15,000rpm rev limiter in the ECU and therefore the hard-cut doesn't manifest in his. Note that this doesn't show up in a Rovergauge log as it's too coarse between readings to catch it. It does appear with a 10Hz capture, though (refer below). I can tell you it's REALLY not nice having a 520Nm motor honking along hard and suddenly switching off and back on again rapidly at high revs and foot buried. Not great for the driveline either... Cue Transfer Case replacement happening today with an Ashcroft H/D rebuild.

    Attachment 141693

    Has anyone seen that before? Is that something that can be cleaned up with a filter, or is related to something inherent in the vehicle? Is there a fix that anyone knows of? It's not the suppressor hooked up to the coil (capacitor) or anything simple like that is it? * please let it be simple *

    I'm about to head off into the desert for the next three weeks and having a clean-running engine would be really good. I had the (expensive) Scorcher dizzy made to hopefully fix the problem but hasn't helped that at all (but it does run better given the re-graph, etc. so still well worthwhile).

    PM sent to Bee Utey, but then I thought I'd chuck it out here for all to see...

    Any help very appreciated. Thanks.

    What was the resolution?

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfurzer View Post
    What was the resolution?
    Per my 18Aug18 post it seems that installing&mounting everything properly sorted it (good earths, proper wiring, etc). But I have barely driven it in the last year.
    DiscoClax
    '94 D1 3dr Aegean Blue - 300ci stroker RV8, 4HP24 & Compushift, usual bar-work, various APT gear, 235/85 M/Ts, 3deg arms, Detroit lockers, $$$$, etc.
    '08 RRS TDV8 Rimini Red - 285/60R18 Falken AT3Ws, Rock slider-steps, APT full under-protection, Mitch Hitch, Tradesman rack, Traxide DBS, Gap IID

  10. #220
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    Wonder if someone could offer some insight to this please?
    RRC 1991 3.9, 2 wire original Lucas Distributor

    Decided to follow the sage advice and do this conversion after poring over this thread a couple of times. The vehicle was running OK, but the benefits seem worthwhile.
    Bought a new BIM024 module and MEC717 coil from Repco, so hopefully not knockoffs. Followed all the instructions, made new wires with soldered terminals. All the connections are tight and clean. Made a heatsink mount (though this is not a factor seeing as I have not had it on the road with the conversion so hasn't had the chance to get hot). I reset the dist airgap on the tightest point to .0016 thou with a flat feeler gauge.

    Problem is this, it starts and runs - initially idle was rough until I tightened up the gap. However, its only happy to idle at about 14-16º BTDC, retard it to 10 and it stalls (checked with advance tube off and plugged). Any accelleration was rough with a kind of miss, idle kind of hunted around if it didn't chuff to a stop.
    I thought I had indexed the rotor shaft on the wrong cog, so tried one either side and did not run at all other than a couple of unhappy coughs. Tried reversing the two wires from the distributor, did not run. Checked the numbers on the module, all the wires were going to the right place, checked the two other loom coil wires to the original + - locations, seemed correct.
    So, in order to check my process of timing and distributor installation i reinstalled the old module and wiring, reinstalled the distributor, all was (and is) fine - stable idle, accelleration and running as it was before the new ign parts. A bit better actually as I discovered during the process that the vacuum advance was broken (I could suck air right through it), so now fitted with a funcional spare.

    So what might be causing this issue?
    Thanks

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