Page 1 of 61 1231151 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 607

Thread: Disco 3/4 Automatic Transmission FAQ - 6 Speed

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Yass NSW
    Posts
    5,551
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Disco 3/4 Automatic Transmission FAQ - 6 Speed

    Since my D3 has been getting the shudders I thought I'd post some of my research on a new thread rather than generating heaps of posts on the FAQ. Happy to be corrected on any points that other people know of, maybe we'll all learn something. So to kick it off....

    Transmission is a ZF 6HP26 unit. Is currently fitted to BMWs, Ford Falcons and Territories, Audis and Jaguars to name a few

    The transmission has been around in one form or another since 2001 when it was introduced on a 7 series

    ZF have designated the transmission as "sealed for life" but a more accurate description of this strategy would be "sealed until the warranty period is over"

    The Land Rover variant uses a plastic sump which has an inbuilt filter which is a throwaway with the sump at service time. The filter also means that the engine has to be lifted from one mount to fit the new sump. ZF make a steel sump part number 1068 103 820 01 Kit Sump. an alloy sump may also be available ex Ford. These variants do not have the filter inbuilt and can be fitted / removed without lifting the engine.

    Fluid for these transmissions is ZF LifguardFluid6 part number S671 090 253 for a 20 litre drum. Dealers charge $78 a litre, other repairers less but it's still expensive.
    Other alternatives may be Motospecs Part # 749626, Ford RI-28, Shell ATF M 1375.4, Mercon SP XT-6-QSP Ford have a RRP of $48 a litre for their oil.


    The design of the 6hp26 is different in that it does not have bands but rather clutch packs and the transmission is completely electronically controlled. The torque converter clutch is modulated in that it can be engaging and releasing at a rapid rate to allow a transition between fully locked up and disengaged. The torque converter clutch can lock up in all gears

    Due to these transmissions having no service schedule they develop a "shudder" that is similar to driving over a ripple strip embedded in the white line at the edge of a road. This is caused by the degredation of the oil and causes wear to the torque converter clutch and potentially damages the rest of the transmission through contamination and overheating.

    It would seem that 50,000KM would be a good time to change the transmission fluid to delay the fault above happening.

    Sport mode reduces the shudder substantially, possibly because the transmission is more likely to kick down a gear in response to increased load rather than modulating the torque converter to allow some slip.

    There are reports from the UK of coolant contamination from the transmission cooler in the radiator becoming porous. It may be worthwhile to consider testing old fluid for glycol as a transmission flush will not help for long.

    It's NOT a "Land Rover Problem".... Googling the transmission model number brings up lots of tales of woe from owners of these transmissions that have failed due to lack of oil changes.

    When off road in steep country it is preferable to lock the vehicle in a suitable gear to reduce heat load on the transmission rather than leaving it in drive.

    A new transmission will cost you in the vicinity of $7000 so regular oil changes make sense.

    Thats all I can think of for now, any other thoughts welcome.
    RMP, maybe when we have a complete list we could revise and put in the FAQ?

    Regards,
    Tote
    Last edited by Bytemrk; 29th December 2016 at 07:37 AM. Reason: Title change after splitting out 8 speed
    Go home, your igloo is on fire....
    2014 Chile Red L494 RRS Autobiography Supercharged
    MY2016 Aintree Green Defender 130 Cab Chassis
    1957 Series 1 107 ute - In pieces

    Assorted Falcons and Jeeps.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    831
    Total Downloaded
    0
    I have heard of people putting the steel pan on - has anybody gone down the alloy route ?? Is there much weight difference and/or any issues with it getting "biffed" off-road ??? I'm about to get the big flush and a new pan very soon and would be interested in any feedback. The two place I have in mind are A & B in Dandenong and Manuel Transmissions in Thomastown ... I hear that they are both good with ZF boxes - any feedback on these appreciated as well.
    cheers.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Edmonton Alberta Canada
    Posts
    743
    Total Downloaded
    0

    Will have dealer install the plastic pan again.

    To my disappointment, I am going to have my dealer put the replacement LR part number plastic tranny pan/oil filter combo on when he does the new oil, new filter thing in a couple of weeks along with an engine oil change.

    For me, it was a money/sourcing question related more to the oil filter than anything else.

    The plastic LR supplied pan costs about $300 here whereas the metal pan would come directly from ZF in Germany at a cost to me of about $500 plus another $100 for shipping.

    That was still OK for me as the added cost would probably be offset by reduced labour to remove the pan and install the new one - not having to lift the engine/tranny etc.

    The real problem was at next tranny oil filter change where I would have to preorder the oil filter from Germany, (not stocked in Canada), at a cost of maybe near $200.

    I had figured that maybe a metal pan and filter from a Ford F250, (5 speed ZF), would work, but no, I pretty much have to use the official ZF part number from Germany as there is no A&B aftermarket pan easily available here. Yes, I could order one but ....

    I actually expect the A&B pan and filter are both Ford Australia part numbers but that does not do me much good here in Canada. Somehow I cannot see A&B pressing out pans in a back room somewhere and then attaching magnets and drain plugs etc and throwing in a filter all for $200.00 just for a few D3's. If so, they should do winch bumpers as well.

    As to tranny oil change interval, the dealer here suggests 75,000 km if driven for personal use, (mostly in town, and no off road), but more often if used off road or towing.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    4,496
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tote View Post
    It would seem that 50,000KM would be a good time to change the transmission fluid to delay the fault above happening.
    I have to disagree, sorry My D3 has done 97k without a shudder or any other transmission issues. I've never towed anything so maybe this towing is a qualifier re the timing of the ATF change?
    Touareg CR 210TDI 2022
    Disco 5 SD4 HSE 2018
    Disco 4 3.0 SDV6 2014
    Disco 4 2.7 2011
    Disco 3 V6 SE 2007

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Sydney/Balmain
    Posts
    734
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tote View Post
    Since my D3 has been getting the shudders I thought I'd post some of my research on a new thread rather than generating heaps of posts on the FAQ. Happy to be corrected on any points that other people know of, maybe we'll all learn something. So to kick it off....

    Transmission is a ZF 6HP26 unit. Is currently fitted to BMWs, Ford Falcons and Territories, Audis and Jaguars to name a few

    The transmission has been around in one form or another since 2001 when it was introduced on a 7 series

    ZF have designated the transmission as "sealed for life" but a more accurate description of this strategy would be "sealed until the warranty period is over"

    The Land Rover variant uses a plastic sump which has an inbuilt filter which is a throwaway with the sump at service time. The filter also means that the engine has to be lifted from one mount to fit the new sump. ZF make a steel sump part number 1068 103 820 01 Kit Sump. an alloy sump may also be available ex Ford. These variants do not have the filter inbuilt and can be fitted / removed without lifting the engine.

    Fluid for these transmissions is ZF LifguardFluid6 part number S671 090 253 for a 20 litre drum. Dealers charge $78 a litre, other repairers less but it's still expensive.
    Other alternatives may be Motospecs Part # 749626, Ford RI-28, Shell ATF M 1375.4, Mercon SP XT-6-QSP Ford have a RRP of $48 a litre for their oil.


    The design of the 6hp26 is different in that it does not have bands but rather clutch packs and the transmission is completely electronically controlled. The torque converter clutch is modulated in that it can be engaging and releasing at a rapid rate to allow a transition between fully locked up and disengaged. The torque converter clutch can lock up in all gears

    Due to these transmissions having no service schedule they develop a "shudder" that is similar to driving over a ripple strip embedded in the white line at the edge of a road. This is caused by the degredation of the oil and causes wear to the torque converter clutch and potentially damages the rest of the transmission through contamination and overheating.

    It would seem that 50,000KM would be a good time to change the transmission fluid to delay the fault above happening.

    Sport mode reduces the shudder substantially, possibly because the transmission is more likely to kick down a gear in response to increased load rather than modulating the torque converter to allow some slip.

    There are reports from the UK of coolant contamination from the transmission cooler in the radiator becoming porous. It may be worthwhile to consider testing old fluid for glycol as a transmission flush will not help for long.

    It's NOT a "Land Rover Problem".... Googling the transmission model number brings up lots of tales of woe from owners of these transmissions that have failed due to lack of oil changes.

    When off road in steep country it is preferable to lock the vehicle in a suitable gear to reduce heat load on the transmission rather than leaving it in drive.

    A new transmission will cost you in the vicinity of $7000 so regular oil changes make sense.

    Thats all I can think of for now, any other thoughts welcome.
    RMP, maybe when we have a complete list we could revise and put in the FAQ?

    Regards,
    Tote
    Nice work with the fact finding.
    It is hard to believe that a part as critical to a vehicle as a transmission is so "neglected" by a vehicle manufacturer such as L/R. Particularly when it is for off rd use in remote areas. How does L/R think people can be trip prepared and have confidence in their of road vehicle if they cant even service something (at a reasonable cost).
    I guess it looks good on L/Rs servicing shedule (as its not there).
    I think they call this out sourcing.
    It is obviously the way most transmissions will go, some mechanics in the future will never work on a transmission other than to pull them out and put a new one in at great cost to an irate owner.

  6. #6
    Rockylizard Guest

    Disco 3/4 Automatic Transmission FAQ

    Quote Originally Posted by RR P38 View Post
    .............It is obviously the way most transmissions will go, some mechanics in the future will never work on a transmission other than to pull them out and put a new one in at great cost to an irate owner.
    Gday...

    It is not just transmissions ... "mechanics" (who are no longer "mechanics" but "technicians") do not fix anything anymore. It is all test it - find fault - remove & replace. There is very little that is 'fixed' or 'overhauled' anymore.

    And to make it worse, the "technician" decides it needs remove & replace ... and gets the 2nd year apprentice to do the work.

    They charge "technician's" hourly rate, but pay the 2nd year apprentice's hourly rate. Been that way for years now.

    Now in my day...............
    Cheers
    John

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    18,474
    Total Downloaded
    0
    I believe (but not confirmed) that the reason that the oil is in for life (as mentioned on most modern European auto vehicles) is to meet European oil pollution requirements - less oil disposed of means ultimately less pollution. Most manufactures have had this requirement thrust upon them rather than it being a manufacturers requirememt.

    While I think Tote's 50,000km is a bit too soon (noting it is a number that prevents the issue not when it starts) I think 100,000km is longest that oil should remain in the box. L322 experience shows that 130,000km will ruin a box behind a V8 petrol but will last alot longer behind a TD6 - however different boxes are involved.

    My RRS is coming up to its 48,000km service soon and I will discuss with the service agent but I will most likely get a mega flush at its 96,000 service assuming all is still well.

    Garry
    Last edited by LRD414; 5th January 2019 at 03:33 PM.
    REMLR 243

    2007 Range Rover Sport TDV6
    1977 FC 101
    1976 Jaguar XJ12C
    1973 Haflinger AP700
    1971 Jaguar V12 E-Type Series 3 Roadster
    1957 Series 1 88"
    1957 Series 1 88" Station Wagon

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Parkdale, Melbourne
    Posts
    616
    Total Downloaded
    0
    My RRS has just had the gearbox oil changed, after a leak developed from the input shaft & also one from the transfer box (having covered 57,000 miles). Have to say, the gear change is now much smoother and the 'clunk' I used to get occasionally when asking the box to grab 1st gear at junctions has now gone. It's very noticeable how much better the box now behaves.

    I think that flushing out the box is a bit OTT, I'd much prefer to just change the oil and leave it at that, I don't see a benefit in essentially changing the (very expensive) oil twice.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Adelaide Hills
    Posts
    183
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteD3 View Post
    I have to disagree, sorry My D3 has done 97k without a shudder or any other transmission issues. I've never towed anything so maybe this towing is a qualifier re the timing of the ATF change?
    I've been through all this and my oil at 70,000km was dark. The ZF website says change oil at 80-120,000km if towing, high temperature or high speeds. I spoke to ZF in Sydney and said my D3 is over 3 tonnes when fully laden and he said that is the same as towing! I have done 2 more double flushes and am up to 125,000km on the vehicle. Checking the oil every third or fourth service is a wise move.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    831
    Total Downloaded
    0
    Just booked my D3 in for a full auto service and a new "steel" pan on Wednesday. Being done at "Manuel Automatics" in Thomastown, I had a good long talk to the owner and they seem very knowledgeable re Landrovers (they do a lot for Les Richmond Auto) - so we'll see how it goes, I checked all the part numbers etc with them and they assured me they only use genuine ZF parts and oils. I'll post a report when I've got it back.
    cheers

Page 1 of 61 1231151 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Search AULRO.com ONLY!
Search All the Web!