Kaiser Locker - better than Detroit?

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Dave may hate me now

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Don't worry, plenty of us will love you if you can make it happen.

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Originally Posted by bushrover

I had kaisers front and rear in the 110. Took the front out and fitted an Ashcroft. The rear is similar to a detroit in behaviour, although I haven't had a detroit for years and not in a Rover.

A bit of history - I have never failed a uni, never failed a centre diff, never stripped hy tuff axles (the set in there now are welded), never had to continually tighten prop shaft bolts or replace drive flanges because they have flogged out, never had to tighten output flange nuts on the tranny, until I fitted a front and rear kaiser. DON'T fit one in a manual vehicle, unless you are prepared to rebuild drive trains more often than usual.

If Dave will build an air locker for the salisbury, I will buy one, if not I will fit an auto and still probably fit an air locker - I don't like slipping sideways because of a locked rear end when you don't want it to be locked. The kaisers are much smoother with an auto, the convertor does not act as a solid stop when the kaiser winds up and then lets go when cornering, which only happens when you forget to modify your driving behaviour. Having said that, they are a strong diff and work extremely well. Ideal with a manual locker in the front. I am hoping the auto will improve on road manners and also compensate for me being lazy and hating changing gears.

Rick

P.S. If you want a front kaiser, I have one. If I get excited I may pull it apart and post a couple of photo's of the internals, but it won't be this weekend.

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Excellent, just the feedback I was looking for.

What attracted me to the Kaiser is the unlock on over-run which mitigates a lot of the corner entry understeer you get with a Detroit/No-Spin (and most don't seem to notice on a 110 or 130) oh, and the bloody awful backlash.

Oh, I'm also lazy and I'm cheap :D and I'd like it to be there for on road and anytime use, not just when I remember to hit the switch.
The LSD in the Patrol is handy just tootling around the paddock when it's wet, etc but I have to remember to hit the pedal for the diff lock in the tractor :angel:

I also really dislike Detroits from my experience of them in race cars, the early ones I've used were noisy, clanking, cycling back and forth, unpredictable pieces of horse manure, but they stopped wheelspin when your torque outstripped the available traction.

and thanks for the offer but I don't think I really want one for the front, I'm not that brave :D
One of Daves ATB's will do me nicely, I'm not into extreme stuff anymore.

From what Dave Ashcroft has said and the results from the blokes that fitted them on the D90 Source forum, the rear Kaiser and even one in the front are virtually invisible with an auto in a 90, so it sounds like they'd be sweet in a AT'd 110.



I'm wondering if gear oil has a bearing on their behaviour too.
I know the Weismann was really temperamental unless you had the correct fluid, and I haven't been able to find out the fluid specs (yet)
I suspect anything with an LSD friction modifier may led to a slip/stick type situation with the rollers and outer cage.
But I could be talking out of my arse too.

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Originally Posted by rick130

which mitigates a lot of the corner entry understeer you get with a Detroit/No-Spin (and most don't seem to notice on a 110 or 130) oh, and the bloody awful backlash.

I also really dislike Detroits from my experience of them in race cars, the early ones I've used were noisy, clanking, cycling back and forth, unpredictable pieces of horse manure, but they stopped wheelspin when your torque outstripped the available traction.

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I think you need to update your experiences with a modern Detroit. I have had one in my 101 and certainly no understeer and no more backlash than the standard setup.

The only time I hear mine is in tight turns and never on the road.

I think you should have a look at the newer versions.

Garry

Rick, just nut up and buy a Quaife :)

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Originally Posted by garrycol

I think you need to update your experiences with a modern Detroit. I have had one in my 101 and certainly no understeer and no more backlash than the standard setup.

The only time I hear mine is in tight turns and never on the road.

I think you should have a look at the newer versions.

Garry

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Gary, we've all had this discussion before and everyone that uses the newer soft locker say the same thing, that's it's basically transparent in normal day to day use, but they have to increase corner entry understeer, it's inherent in the design as the rear end is fully locked on corner entry.
You may not notice it, but it's happening and you naturally take corrective measures (ie. turn in earlier and with a little more lock)
In a 110 or 130 it should be very mild, but it's still there.

Put it this way, I feel the Patrol LSD on corner entry, but then SWMBO says I'm just a sensitive little flower :D

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Rick, just nut up and buy a Quaife :)

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Naa, Ashcroft's ATB is the same thing for 1/3 the $.

I'll just have to get fancy with the TC (read: left foot brake) if I lift a wheel :D

Ok, so an Ashcroft it is....

Without offending, I would not conside the handling and feel characteristics of a 101 near enough to a coil defender to make a clear call.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Gary, we've all had this discussion before and everyone that uses the newer soft locker say the same thing, that's it's basically transparent in normal day to day use, but they have to increase corner entry understeer, it's inherent in the design as the rear end is fully locked on corner entry.
You may not notice it, but it's happening and you naturally take corrective measures (ie. turn in earlier and with a little more lock)
In a 110 or 130 it should be very mild, but it's still there.

Put it this way, I feel the Patrol LSD on corner entry, but then SWMBO says I'm just a sensitive little flower :D

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I tend to agree with Gary on this,having owned unlocked Defenders and having a No-Spin in my current 110,I have found that most defenders even with mild lifts,tend to want to oversteer,fitting the detroit,on road at least tends to neutralise the steering.I know that I am able to travel at much higher speed:eek: in my defender fitted with the No-Spin through the many twisty sections up the mountains near here,than I was previously able to when the vehicle was unlocked.
But you could stop all the pussy footing around and just buy a JacMac and never have to worry about it again:D