Thread: Bathurst 12 hr.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I have observed that people squeeze the handle while trying to remove the pin thus holding it tight.....it appeared that is what she was doing.

I wonder how much fire training these marshalls actually get?

This obviously comes from those of you that have had bugger all to do with motorsport and fire response.
I have been in the profession now for 14 odd years and a Cams Fire Marshall for over 3, controlling events such as Supercars etc and have also been acting Chief.
You cannot enter the track under any situation until Race Control authorizes you to do so, end of story. If you do you will lose your cams accreditation and never officiate again. Yes there are different levels of skill due to it mainly being volunteer ranging from novice to professional. None of us get paid for doing it.
It can be torturous waiting for permission to enter the track, I know first hand having to wait and not putting my crew on the track when cars are still coming even under yellow. Just such an occurence with the GT cars at Barbagallos last yeae, Double yellows and cars still doing over 200kmph, so no member of my crew was entering the track until they slowed one minor miss and a crew member is dead, so maybe think about that before you comment.
The only way you will see full timers like us take it over is if driver costs and admission costs skyrocket.

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

I have observed that people squeeze the handle while trying to remove the pin thus holding it tight.....it appeared that is what she was doing.

I wonder how much fire training these marshalls actually get?

Originally Posted by CraigE

This obviously comes from those of you that have had bugger all to do with motorsport and fire response.
I have been in the profession now for 14 odd years and a Cams Fire Marshall for over 3, controlling events such as Supercars etc and have also been acting Chief.
You cannot enter the track under any situation until Race Control authorizes you to do so, end of story. If you do you will lose your cams accreditation and never officiate again. Yes there are different levels of skill due to it mainly being volunteer ranging from novice to professional. None of us get paid for doing it.
It can be torturous waiting for permission to enter the track, I know first hand having to wait and not putting my crew on the track when cars are still coming even under yellow. Just such an occurence with the GT cars at Barbagallos last yeae, Double yellows and cars still doing over 200kmph, so no member of my crew was entering the track until they slowed one minor miss and a crew member is dead, so maybe think about that before you comment.
The only way you will see full timers like us take it over is if driver costs and admission costs skyrocket.

Fireys and flaggies are two different entities, albeit with overlapping roles.
As you state Craig, nobody can enter the track (including fireys, medics, ambos or any course car) until authorised by race control.
Each flag point is equipped with fire extinguishers, but the primary role of the flag point is communication. When a burning car pulls up at a flag point, knowing it is equipped with extinguishers, it is not unreasonable to expect an expedient and effective response, rather than fumbling bewilderment.
I have fulfilled various roles in motor-sport, including volunteer flag and fire marshalling and in my opinion, the flag marshalling at this event was definitely below par.
I would like to add the rider that flagging is not as simple as it appears. The marshal has to have situational awareness and make split second decisions in an instantaneously changing environment.

Originally Posted by CraigE

This obviously comes from those of you that have had bugger all to do with motorsport and fire response.
I have been in the profession now for 14 odd years and a Cams Fire Marshall for over 3, controlling events such as Supercars etc and have also been acting Chief.
You cannot enter the track under any situation until Race Control authorizes you to do so, end of story. If you do you will lose your cams accreditation and never officiate again. Yes there are different levels of skill due to it mainly being volunteer ranging from novice to professional. None of us get paid for doing it.
It can be torturous waiting for permission to enter the track, I know first hand having to wait and not putting my crew on the track when cars are still coming even under yellow. Just such an occurence with the GT cars at Barbagallos last yeae, Double yellows and cars still doing over 200kmph, so no member of my crew was entering the track until they slowed one minor miss and a crew member is dead, so maybe think about that before you comment.
The only way you will see full timers like us take it over is if driver costs and admission costs skyrocket.

Craig, did you see the situation we're talking about?
It did appear the firey was struggling to pull the pin on the extinguisher.

Originally Posted by V8Ian

Fireys and flaggies are two different entities, albeit with overlapping roles.
As you state Craig, nobody can enter the track (including fireys, medics, ambos or any course car) until authorised by race control.
Each flag point is equipped with fire extinguishers, but the primary role of the flag point is communication. When a burning car pulls up at a flag point, knowing it is equipped with extinguishers, it is not unreasonable to expect an expedient and effective response, rather than fumbling bewilderment.
I have fulfilled various roles in motor-sport, including volunteer flag and fire marshalling and in my opinion, the flag marshalling at this event was definitely below par.
I would like to add the rider that flagging is not as simple as it appears. The marshal has to have situational awareness and make split second decisions in an instantaneously changing environment.

Generally now a flag marshall is told not to leave their post to attend a fire as they are not in PPE, they can however hand an extinguisher to a driver out of the car or to one of us if we need another. The flag marshal cannot jump the fence with an extinguisher either until authorised by race control and most should not anyway.
I have not been able to view the exact footage you are talking about, but generally most flaggies are not trained to use extinguishers. Should they be? Yes. Also like us ever tried pulling a pin with level 2 or 3 gloves on?
The primary thing is in these cars they all have on board systems that the driver can activate. Often they dont as it is a reasonable expense for them. We had exactly the scenario when I was in charge of both pit lanes with one of the Audi GT cars last year. Cars still doing 200kmph plus under double yellows (supposed to be 60kmph) so there is no way we are putting people on foot onto the track, driver had a whinge and when we investigated found he had not activated his own fire suppression so told him where to get off.
It is painfull having to wait to enter the track when a car is on fire or a driver hurt.
In an ideal world we would have everyone experienced and trained but it all comes at a cost that would likely spell the extinction of motorsport, Some of us do give back and try to educate new members and other officials but only so much we can do. My son for example is relatively new only in year 3, but one of the more experienced now. These events cant happen without the volunteers. A good example of this was while training my son, only on his L's we were the only 2 to turn up at an event. Without my son would not have been run. I had to give him a really rapid course on driving fire 1 and I had to drive Fire 2. It was one hell of a day and I was backwards and forwards in and out of both vehicles. And you know what we get for the day? A sausage in a roll and 2 drinks.

Originally Posted by rick130

Craig, did you see the situation we're talking about?
It did appear the firey was struggling to pull the pin on the extinguisher.

A lot of these extinguisher now as well as the pin have a tamper tag so can be difficult to pull especially with level 2 or 3 gloves on. Not defending it, but it is not a flaggies jobe to attend a fire, full stop if this was the case.

Originally Posted by CraigE

And you know what we get for the day? A sausage in a roll and 2 drinks.

Over-paid , we used to get a small, warm, stale salad roll and bottle of warm water.

They still have flaggies? how quaint and old-fashioned. Qld. tracks insist on gadgets they call "communicators" and if you don't own an approved model have to hire one from the organisers at absolute rip-off prices. No flaggies.

Edit:- I stand corrected. They still have flaggies but for how much longer is a moot point. Communicators are required under standing regs at Qld. Raceway and Lakesdie.

Originally Posted by Bigbjorn

They still have flaggies? how quaint and old-fashioned. Qld. tracks insist on gadgets they call "communicators" and if you don't own an approved model have to hire one from the organisers at absolute rip-off prices. No flaggies.

Edit:- I stand corrected. They still have flaggies but for how much longer is a moot point. Communicators are required under standing regs at Qld. Raceway and Lakesdie.

Sorry? What do you mean by communicators? The only thing I know of they use is Dorian Timers. They dont tell the drivers anything while driving, just record and transmit times. Some crews have radio comms some dont, some divisions you are not allowed radio comms. Flaggies even with lighting systems will be around for some time yet. Flaggies are more than just flag wavers and often call in incidents race control cannot see, damage to cars, incidents etc as we also do, no matter how many cameras you have there are always blind spots.
Even in the divisions where they have clear radio comms, we still get drivers not slow under double yellows with flags and lights flashing plus comms from the pits. Comms are only useful if the incident is communicated and often it is not by team radio.