Thread: The Whyalla steel works must be saved, at any cost

Originally Posted by incisor

fair enough everybody reads things differently, but let me know when you trip over the smilie at the top of the post old mate...

feel free to address the serious post i made further down if you want a discussion... based on fact would be nice...

sadly i don't frequent the current affairs section because i always am told i cant behave like everybody else because i run the joint or i am biased because i dare differ with them so i run the place at a bias. i got over the confected outrage and hypocrisy ages ago.

it is what it is pickles...

Fair enough, thanks for the reply, I didn't like the wording, most unlike you, but importantly, YES, I DID miss the significance of the smilie.
I see "Tank" is putting me on his "ignore" list??!!...All good, I ain't gonna lose any sleep over that, & I'm sure He won't, but I'm always happy to read what other people write, even if I don't agree.
I never "ignored" anyone in C.A. either. Actually, I've learned a bit from people, on this Forum, & in life generally, from people with whom I've vigorously disagreed, and I hope I continue to do so. All part of life I reckon.
If the time comes in this Country when We can't say & write what we like, then that will really be something we won't be able to "ignore".
Regards, Pickles.

A Vexed one this. On the one hand I agree with not supporting industries that are not sustainable. However the social cost to regional Australia and the families does need to be considered.
The issue of quality is also important, steel holds up half of our new city apartments and other buildings. I have read some where that the quality of steel from our northern neighbours is not as good as the domestic product. If this is correct then we should help our local producers.
The way we are heading our kids will be working (if they can get a job) for branch offices of multinationals.
As I opened with not easy.
Cheers
Tony

A story on steel quality:

I went to a seminar on steel and they were encouraging us to spec local steel and pushing that ther quality was much, MUCH better than a place that starts with c and ends in hina. They told of a job where a truss was to be made, but of course it was cheaper to get it made overseas. So when they got it they atuck in on a crane only to hear water sloshing around inside. On closer inspection they found that it had been tack welded together, with joints than siliconed to look like welds. A coat of gal rich paint and it looked the part. On pulling it apart they found that the steel gauge was too thin, and realised that it had been filled with water to bring it up to the correct weight!

Eevo are you still sure you dont care if the local steel mills close?

Oh and it obviously ended up being more expensive than supporting local at the start.

It can be sustainable industry, as has been mentioned, china is dumping so much steel here, and the government isnt doing (or can't do, i dont know the ins and outs of the trade agreements) anything to stop it.

And as has also been mentioned, if state projects supported local then local industry will stay. The income tax for paying the workers would come close to covering the difference in cost plus the money stays here to be spent elsewhere which equals more tax moneys.

Cheers

Dan

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

A story on steel quality:

I went to a seminar on steel and they were encouraging us to spec local steel and pushing that ther quality was much, MUCH better than a place that starts with c and ends in hina. They told of a job where a truss was to be made, but of course it was cheaper to get it made overseas. So when they got it they atuck in on a crane only to hear water sloshing around inside. On closer inspection they found that it had been tack welded together, with joints than siliconed to look like welds. A coat of gal rich paint and it looked the part. On pulling it apart they found that the steel gauge was too thin, and realised that it had been filled with water to bring it up to the correct weight!

Eevo are you still sure you dont care if the local steel mills close?

propping up the company wont change the above.

Originally Posted by frantic

Pickles , your a numbers man so simply put the extra cost of buying local steel would be far far less than the loss of income tax from Whyalla Arrium employees alone.
Ean, one steel/ Arrium would be open still if all state govts bought Canada style ( nsw just bought several BILLION dollars of rail but not local).
Also my house , building at the moment is built with an Aussie steel frame and roof was same price as a timber competitors same size so false ean.
I'm sorry but if Arrium close where do you get rail and rope from of similar quality. We went down the accounts driven path of trying imported " same grade" rope years ago. That lasted a very short time as it was such bad quality that it threatened our lives and we insisted on going back to one steel rope.
You will also be in the situation of having only foreign suppliers so what you get is all you get at their price.
Yes they may have made a bad decision on assets purchases a few years ago but if they where based in India, South Africa, Canada , USA ,Brazil or Germany they would have their domestic market protections in place.

I agree that all government contracts should buy Australian first, but remember that they will be subjected to scrutiny for the $$ they spend and there will be a section of the community that will want to know why the government paid more for X brand when they could have bought Y brand for X$$ less.
Government contracts seem to be treated the same way as insurance company quotes, they seem to grow by more than double because its a government or insurance job. This is the big downfall when companies know its tax payers $$ they seem to believe its an endless pit.


Its a complex issue and I feel for the workers but a company that big gets itself $3 billion in debt and it cant trade out tells me that something is wrong. The down side of bringing receivers in is they get paid first, before anyone, so by the time it gets down to the poor old workers they will get bugger all of what they are owed.


Cheers Ean

It at least means the option of guaranteed high quality steel is available. Buying cheap from overseas can be a gamble, and it doesnt make much finacial sense for the government not to buy local as it keeps the money here.

Cheers

Dan

Originally Posted by Disco-tastic

It at least means the option of guaranteed high quality steel is available. Buying cheap from overseas can be a gamble, and it doesnt make much finacial sense for the government not to buy local as it keeps the money here.

Cheers

Dan

That's not always true, plenty of cases where stuff has been produced locally but the company funnels $$ offshore to avoid tax, or , the company is owned by a foreign company who funnels the money to its overseas offices.


I don't know the story behind this company , but this didn't just happen overnight , things have been going backwards for a while.


Cheers Ean

NSW rail link has more steel than the Harbour bridge, all imported from China. Another industry down the gurgler. Australia is indeed becoming a banana republic.

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