Thread: The Whyalla steel works must be saved, at any cost

Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

A shrewd investment.
The trouble is, when the government put our money into an investment, they don't get it back.
'I'm not a cowboy': Phoenix Institute investor maintains private college did nothing wrong - Background Briefing - ABC Radio National (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

It's sad to see Arrium is suffering.
PM - Arrium administrators hold crisis meetings as politics around steel heat up 08/04/2016

But this is not the governments fault. It is the fault of "we the people". Our constant drive for the cheapest at the expense of quality.
Circuit breakers, cladding, electrical cables, and now:
Warnings people could be die because of dangerous imported steel - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

A phrase often said "not complying with Australian Standards".

In my industry, we comply with these standards. We have to.
But the consumer buys from our competitor who imports product that does not comply.

In short, it's our fault.

100% correct Mick , and it isn't going to change anytime soon. We all want to buy the cheapest regardless of place of origin, then blame the government when something like this happens.

Cheers Ean

Originally Posted by Fatso

Google the "Australian Debt clock" for probably the real reason we are not in good shape .

Did you read the disclaimer

The Owner is not in the business of providing professional advice and gives no warranty guarantee or representation about the accuracy,

Says it all, really.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

Developed economies make complex premium products such as cars, ships, planes etc which require high investment in skills and facilities. Undeveloped economies don't. Which do we want to be?

Governments should enforce buy locally policies to support local industries by ensuring a base local market exists. For example we have a gas mining industry because the Qld Government in 1995 required 15% of Queensland's electricity to be generated by gas not coal

We might have retained a car manufacturing industry if the Abbott Government had continued the previous government's policy of supporting the manufacture of vehicles which were competitive such as the Holden Cruze and Ford Territory.

Thailand has become the 'Detroit of Asia' by imposing 400% import duties to protect companies which agree to make cars there (which we Aussies buy). That makes the Thais smarter than us Aussies.

If we throw away the steel industry because we're too selfish to work together to build up the country then we also undermine the industries which use its products to manufacture locally. That makes our country poorer and we all lose out in the long term.

We'll end up at the mercy of foreign companies who will jack up their prices to make us pay for being vulnerable to being exploited. I've just come back from Vanuatu so I've seen a vulnerable economy first-hand. Its not a pretty sight.

Surely its time for us Aussies to reject ideological economic theories and get back to doing what actually works in real life. Are we too stupid to see the truth?

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Mate, the car industry,...How could the Australian Govt "support the production of Cruze & territory"?....The Cruze has been a disaster from inception,..outclassed by the opposition,....have a look at the current figures. Terrirory,..nice car but not sold outside Aus, because it was Ford USA that wouldn't support that NOT the Aussie Govt. In fact, the Aussie Govt gave big dollars to Ford to produce the Focus in Aus. What did Ford do?...I'll tell you, THEY decided to make the Focus in Thailand, (I'll let you guess why?), and they put that money into the emission development of the Falcon 6, which is now obsolete. So, whose fault is that?,...It sure as hell ain't the fault of the Govt,...ANY Govt.
And, please don't forget to tell me why Ford made the decision to make the Focus in Thailand.
Pickles.

Ean and eevo read this, Buying Australian makes sense

Ean the cost of buying local is not "double", it's not even 20% , in most cases it's down to single figures 0.5-5% read the report. 60-80 million extra cost on 2 billion worth of projects is 3-4%.
Eevo read the post the MARKET is here but our govt is importing the product which means locals must export at a loss.

In reality Whyalla plant is worth to build around 4 billion

Pickles, we've told you why but your not listening. 7 years zero tax.
Also uk and Europe made both Gm and ford export their products made locally , mondeo in China and oz, vectra and Astra etc.

Originally Posted by frantic

Ean and eevo read this, Buying Australian makes sense

Ean the cost of buying local is not "double", it's not even 20% , in most cases it's down to single figures 0.5-5% read the report. 60-80 million extra cost on 2 billion worth of projects is 3-4%.
Eevo read the post the MARKET is here but our govt is importing the product which means locals must export at a loss.

In reality Whyalla plant is worth to build around 4 billion

G'Day My friend, I've just got back in from attending a lovely car show, so I've caught up on this thread, which I've now read.
Mate, you called me a "Figures Man"!!!?......Lol,...You've just proved to me, after reading this thread, that you are the master!!!..All good.
But really this thread could've gone anywhere, but it's refreshing to see the way it has gone, even though many of us have differing views.
Are you directly caught up with Arium?
Regards, Pickles.

Originally Posted by incisor

whether the company made anything out of it has nothing to do with it in the long run.

i think here is the key point were we differ.
you think its ok for a business to run at a loss as long as it employees people regardless of how bad the business is performing.
i dont.

Originally Posted by frantic

Ean and eevo read this, Buying Australian makes sense

Ean the cost of buying local is not "double", it's not even 20% , in most cases it's down to single figures 0.5-5% read the report. 60-80 million extra cost on 2 billion worth of projects is 3-4%.
Eevo read the post the MARKET is here but our govt is importing the product which means locals must export at a loss.

In reality Whyalla plant is worth to build around 4 billion

Pickles, we've told you why but your not listening. 7 years zero tax.

many times buying local (not just steel) is more expensive. anywhere from 55% to 100%

if buying australian was so cheap, we would all be doing it.

Originally Posted by frantic

Ean and eevo read this, Buying Australian makes sense

Ean the cost of buying local is not "double", it's not even 20% , in most cases it's down to single figures 0.5-5% read the report. 60-80 million extra cost on 2 billion worth of projects is 3-4%.
Eevo read the post the MARKET is here but our govt is importing the product which means locals must export at a loss.

In reality Whyalla plant is worth to build around 4 billion

Pickles, we've told you why but your not listening. 7 years zero tax.

You seem to forget I work in an industry that competes against the same thing as the steel industry, I seen a fleet of 300 trawlers reduced to 50 so we could keep the industry afloat ( pardon the pun ) , My family went from 3 trawlers to 1 just to survive because we believed in the industry.


We have paid out millions as an industry for things like MSC certification so we could atleast have a leg to stand on when we battled the green movement, and I must say a lot of these changes are for the good. We seen refrigerant gas rise buy 300% the day after the carbon tax came in, all this and compete against foreign prawn imports where costs are 10% of ours.


I no longer own a trawler but we own a license, and I now manage 16 of them , so I know first hand the industry is still facing those same factors, and when we tried to get country of origin labelling the NT was the only state or territory that would do it off the bat, it took the senate years to finally see there was a merit in our point of view. I believe that its still not law in all states.... Why...


I might add that when our fishery achieved MSC ( marine stewardship council ) certification we were the only bottom trawl prawn fishery in the world to do so, I believe several now have it, as an industry we couldn't afford it but we realised it was our future at stake. We receive not 1c from the government when we approached them for help.


Believe me I have met with ministers , prime ministers and the like, fighting against the same issue's the steel industry is facing.


You don't need to preach to the preacher, but I am realistic enough to know that there are far more factors involved than simply telling people to buy Australian. The view of most in this country seems that they only pay attention to this when it affects them directly.


I have said it before, people buy on price first, and have done for a long time.


Cheers Ean