small tig / mig gas bottles

Randomly off-topic-ish

I do a fair amount of Steel SMAW (2mm-12mm)
a fair to middling amount of Aluminium SMAW (1mm-8mm)
and a scoatch of GTAW (mostly 316)

I currently rent two D bottles from BOC an Argoshield Light and an Argon.
No "own and fill" options within 350km which is a little far when the torch runs dry on a Friday.

Recently I have thrown around the idea of renting a bottle of CO2 and a bottle of Ar and sourcing a gas mixer. CO2 is cheaper than Argo light and technically the CO2 bottle would last nearly forever????

The US in-turd-nets are all ga ga about SMITH gas mixers. Does anyone have gas mixer experienec on this side of the pond???

Obviosuly I could just run straight Ar all round - with enough ponies heavy steel (>3mm) welds just fine with straight Ar - you just need to turn it up to 11 and hold on!

But every now and again I need to be subtle like

Opinions?

S

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Outback 1

I recently purchased my cylinder through power 10 gases who have an agent in Kyabram I now own my cylinder and will only pay for the refill/exchange with no rental cost whatsoever
Suppliers of Industrial Oxygen and Oxygen Cylinders

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Thanks Outback 1.
Another option, will have to give them a ring for prices.
I wonder if you can take the bottles to a different supplier that does the "exchange" of individual owned bottles.

I agree with some of the above comments about pricing / value. If going through alot of gas then rental would be cheaper, but for the average home user that may only break out the MIG / TIG once or twice a year then owning the bottles would be better.

I also am going to presume that the initial purchase price includes the first fill up.

Oxy swaps at Bunnings now apparently.

"Trade n go" Gas Coregas Oxygen Size D Gas & Cylinder Deposit I/N 5910224 | Bunnings Warehouse

3rd hand comment from Bunnings staff was that if it goes well they'll start doing other gases too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crash

Thanks Outback 1.
Another option, will have to give them a ring for prices.
I wonder if you can take the bottles to a different supplier that does the "exchange" of individual owned bottles.

I agree with some of the above comments about pricing / value. If going through alot of gas then rental would be cheaper, but for the average home user that may only break out the MIG / TIG once or twice a year then owning the bottles would be better.

I also am going to presume that the initial purchase price includes the first fill up.

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First bottle is full

Sent from my GT-S7275Y using AULRO mobile app

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judo

3rd hand comment from Bunnings staff was that if it goes well they'll start doing other gases too.

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They have acetylene, too. "Trade n go" Gas Coregas Acetylene Size D Gas & Cylinder Deposit I/N 5910223 | Bunnings Warehouse

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roverrescue

Randomly off-topic-ish

I do a fair amount of Steel SMAW (2mm-12mm)
a fair to middling amount of Aluminium SMAW (1mm-8mm)
and a scoatch of GTAW (mostly 316)

I currently rent two D bottles from BOC an Argoshield Light and an Argon.
No "own and fill" options within 350km which is a little far when the torch runs dry on a Friday.

Recently I have thrown around the idea of renting a bottle of CO2 and a bottle of Ar and sourcing a gas mixer. CO2 is cheaper than Argo light and technically the CO2 bottle would last nearly forever????

The US in-turd-nets are all ga ga about SMITH gas mixers. Does anyone have gas mixer experienec on this side of the pond???

Obviosuly I could just run straight Ar all round - with enough ponies heavy steel (>3mm) welds just fine with straight Ar - you just need to turn it up to 11 and hold on!

But every now and again I need to be subtle like

Opinions?

S

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By SMAW, I'm guessing you mean GMAW (MIG?). SMAW is technical talk for 'stick' welding, which isn't a commonly used process with aluminium (it can been done, but with very limited success).

Never heard of these gas mixers, but I have heard of the big vapourizer mixers which are used on bulk / liquid installs - the kind where you have 5 cubes of liquid out the back, argon / CO2, and dial-a-mixture from there. Only really seen on big manufacturing plants.


Let me put it diplomatically... $1600 USD plus any shipping fees is a lot to spend... especially given that you've not changed the net number of cylinders you have. Breakeven point on such an investment would be decades, if anything.

Issues I've come across with MIG welding of steel with your run of the mill S6 mig wire and CO2 is:
- Deep weld penetration (forget about anything under say 3mm)
- Horrendous amounts of spatter (more clean up, higher time invested in a job for the same job rate)
- Regulator freezing up under higher flow - you can fork out an additional $450 for a CO2 preheater

Although CO2 is recommended and encouraged for some kinds of flux cored 'gas assisted' wire, and some hardfacing consumables.

Never heard of pure Argon for MIG turned to 11. I guess it would cover the shielding role of the gas, but the Oxygen and CO2 components in your mixed gases ionize to provide the stable and controllable arc characteristics which welding needs.

There are plenty of weld cost calculators out there on the web which could be used to get an empirical measure of welding with other gases, but my understanding is that if you use the right gas for the job, it will pay for itself in productivity, less re-work of a job poorly done, and overall appearance / performance of the joint.

Ta Mitch, ya meat GMAW as in MIG with hard wire not fluxcore
agreed spending big money would be crazy - but Smith make a gas mixer that shares inputs from CO2 and Ar and you can dial in whatever % of each you fancy... Much smaller scale than you mention

With respect to straight Ar and steel MIG try it some time. Weld bead profile is tall, doesnt wet out the toes but with enough herbs have no problems with penetration but no good for light material

Really just shooting the breeze - gas rental costs are crazy

s

If anybody uses the small disposable welding gas bottles,Bunnings in Beeliar ??? WA (Just of the Kwinana Freeway,Armadale rd) had 3 last tuesday on the discount trolley.1 was argon,the other 2 C02. $19.95ea
Andrew

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LandyAndy

If anybody uses the small disposable welding gas bottles,Bunnings in Beeliar ??? WA (Just of the Kwinana Freeway,Armadale rd) had 3 last tuesday on the discount trolley.1 was argon,the other 2 C02. $19.95ea
Andrew

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Judo

Like these?

Ross Mig Welding Disposable Gas Bottle Argon I/N 6320518 | Bunnings Warehouse

Says "approx 20 minutes". But these look like roughly 1L @ 60 bar. My understanding is that's only 60L at atmosphere pressure. What gas rate do you use on a MIG?

10L/min = 6 minutes.
5L/min = 12 minutes.

Someone check my math...... but if that's right, it sounds damn expensive for $40!

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That link above didn't work for me, but in the past I've crunched the sums on the small cylinders.
Worked out at about $360 per cubic meter. Market rate is around the $30 per cube...

So don't be baffled with bull****. Do the math. Work out the volume of your cylinder in cubic meters of gas at standard temp and pressure (25 celsius, @ 1 atmosphere), and compare the meerkat... Um... I mean Market.
SIMPLES!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

That link above didn't work for me, but in the past I've crunched the sums on the small cylinders.
Worked out at about $360 per cubic meter. Market rate is around the $30 per cube...

So don't be baffled with bull****. Do the math. Work out the volume of your cylinder in cubic meters of gas at standard temp and pressure (25 celsius, @ 1 atmosphere), and compare the meerkat... Um... I mean Market.
SIMPLES!!!

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The bottle I have is probably 1/3rd fo the size of a 'D'. It's pretty much empty now, but has lasted me 1.5years ..... That's a staggering $260 saved in bottle rental already.

It's not the cost of the gas that matters if your a hobby user. It's the rental. If you start a project that involved a HEAP of welding, go hire a bottle for a month to use cheaper gas, then return it when done.

seeya
shane l.