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Thread: Which welder?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    Yes, it can be done, but is very difficult and the results are generally pretty crappy and getting down to thin material is even harder. For under $100 you can buy a spool gun and weld 2mm and thicker ali all day long without breaking a sweat so why frig around?
    Would I be better just using a mig for the S3 door frames? Then i can change wire and fill in the holes in the ally? The main reason I was looking at tig was the control you seem to get with it. Its partly an excuse to get a new toy too

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    Sweet. Something I can write about with my morning coffee.

    Machine selection
    I'm biased to a big red brand, but there are a lot of good machines out there. The ebay cheapies need to be treated as ebay cheapies, so keep that in mind for longevity and parts availability long(er) term.
    That being said, even the big suppliers will hold parts for 10 years or so after the machine is discontinued, so there is a limit. Your budget and level of use will dictate.

    Process selection
    Not all processes (MIG/STICK/TIG) are equal. Stick is easy to get into, no gas needed, but lots of cleanup of slag etc. Can be very resilient to surface contamination. MIG is fast, can be run with a shielding gas with a solid core wire like an ER70S-6 spec, or 'gasless' with a flux-cored wire like an E71T spec (be careful, some gasless wires are single pass only...). Surface prep is important, as there is very little in the way of oxidants in the wire to carry away crap from your base metal to the surface of your weld pool.
    TIG is the NASA spec welding process- everything need to be clean AF. You'd want to be able to eat your lunch off it. Fitup will ideally involve cutting, beveling, sanding and cleaning with acetone or similar to prep before even getting the welder turned on. So rusty work is not an ideal TIG candidate without a lot of prep.

    Power source
    Stick / TIG uses a constant current output, so you'll be able to tig (albeit scratch start) on even the cheapest little stick welders with a suitable torch.
    This is opposed to MIG which is constant voltage output, and has extra magic inside to allow a 'multiprocess' power source capable of doing both CC and CV. Then you get into the world of the suitcase wire feeders which are fed CC from a engine drive unit, then switch it to allow MIG output.
    Quality can vary... a welder is essentially a gearbox for power out of your wall... so it's level of efficiency, quality (smoothness) of output and lifespan come into play. 240V AC comes in, magic happens, and you get a DC output, Constant Current (CC) for Stick/tig, and Constant Voltage (CV) for MIG. Then there is the quality of the synergic maps that the machine uses to ramp up current/voltage, and choke short circuit current spike conditions in dip transfer...
    TL;DR, buy what you can afford and justify getting value out of for your level of use.

    Features
    What's a nice to have and a must have? Keep in mind- is this machine making you your living, or is it something that you dig out of the shed for a play once a month?
    Duty cycle- this reflects in part how efficient the machine is in converting your 240V into a welding output. Inverter machines chop and change the AC waveform to make a nice welding output, but this comes at the expense of power losses and heat... and the circuitry inside the machine can only handle so much heat before it ultimately melts into a puddle on the shed floor. 100% duty cycle would be nice, BUT unless you are literally a robot, you'll never reach the duty cycle. Aim for somewhere between 30 and 60% duty cycle at a current level which is honest for the kind of work you are doing- and clarify what the stated duty cycle is measured at. eg 60% @ 120A would be fine for a home gamer, but this might be a 180A machine, and be good for 30% duty cycle at 175A...
    Accessories- Ensure you get what you need in the box to start welding. Commonly you can expect to get a MIG gun, earth clamp, a gas hose, some wire feed rolls (for MIG), a regulator.
    Spec sheets- ensure you check / compare machines based off their spec sheets- if a supplier can't offer all the technical details of the machine, then consider them either a seller of crap goods, or someone who doesn't know their product. You wnat to know things like duty cycle at a given current output, input voltage (including a variance factor if you plan to run it off a smaller generator), output current (or voltage) range, operating temperature range, IP factor, weights and dimensions, and any applicable standards the machine meets...
    Warranty / service- Find out what recourse you have with a faulty machine. They can and do break, like any other man-made thing. Also look at spares availability after the warranty period- many smaller companies will not hold an inventory of spares, so be wary.

    DC TIG welding aluminium
    I have not tried this, but there is myth and folklore spoken by crusty old boilies from the dark ages. Days where a TIG would cost 5x the yearly salary of the workshop foreman, machines of metal and Iron which required the building to be built around it on 10" thick reinforced concrete footings... Some say it is possible with DC for thick sections using Pure helium shielding gas. These days, with helium being a dwindling resource, the shielding gas would cost as much a couple of decent AC TIG machines... Interesting reading starts here if you are interested. If we (as humankind) were to put an accurate value on our helium reserves (ie for use in real useful technologies like cooling MRI machines etc), than the real cost of A helium filled party balloon would be about $300.

    AC TIG for aluminium
    Cheap ebay machines can be had from a couple of hundred, honest home / light fab machines start at approx $1200, a whizz-bang unit from the big manufacturers would set you back about $4K or more. You get what you pay for in these machines, it's equivalnet to watching a video in 240P vs 4K resolution. High end machines have AC pulse, and the welder can dictate where the AC waveforms sits relative to the 0V line (AC Balance), and then stipulate things like pulse time, background current, pulse ON time down to the poofteenth of a second, with a pulse rate of up to 200Hz (200 pulses per second...) I dream of something like this...

    Machine country of origin
    There was mention of 'cheap mass produced chinese stuff'. The unfortunate reality is that this is where most welding power sources are made. It's economies of scale and comsumer price points which dictate this. Most big brands have 80% of their range made in such places. Those who want higher quality and a given country of origin will have the option, but WELL out of the price range of a home gamer. Fronius, and EWM are two high end manufacturers who have in-country manufacturing, but these machine are an incredibly premium product. The rest are either partly or wholly made in china.



    Yeah, can be quite involved, but have an idea of what you are comfortable to spend based on your usage of the machine (and what it'll realistically save you if you were to get the work done professionally by someone else) and be comfortable in having a throw-away unit if something does go wrong with a cheap unit. Mainly, get amongst it, have a crack and 'lay some sick beads' as the apprentices say.
    -Mitch
    'El Burro' 2012 Defender 90.

  3. #23
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    Glad you found the thread Mitch. Which welder?

    Apologies to all for my last post - I was tired and grumpy - should have left it for the evening but I’m fine now. Sorry again...
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

  4. #24
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    Thanks for stopping by Mitch. Now I know sweet lingo when I want to fit in with real welders

    But seriously, thanks.

    Do you have any experience with any of the cheaply ones? I can't afford/justify anything more than $500 used or new, and am after some recommendations beneath that price point.

    I have some idea of what premium machines can offer, but no real idea how or when to use them. My extent of knowledge on that subject comes from This Old Tony on YouTube - quite entertaining.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-tastic View Post
    Would I be better just using a mig for the S3 door frames? Then i can change wire and fill in the holes in the ally? The main reason I was looking at tig was the control you seem to get with it. Its partly an excuse to get a new toy too
    Unfortunately not that easy. Aluminium and steel require different gases when MIG welding. You’ll need pure argon for Ali.
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    Unfortunately not that easy. Aluminium and steel require different gases when MIG welding. You’ll need pure argon for Ali.
    Ahh OK. I didn't know the standard gas to mig with. Is there much difference to technique or is it only setup? i.e. can I practice a bunch on cheap steel before moving to more expensive aluminium?

  7. #27
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    I bought a ct416 from ebay.
    Plasma cutter, tig and arc.
    I only use it for the plasma cutter as I have an ac/dc tig available.
    Used it a fair bit for 2 years and had not let me down....yet.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-tastic View Post
    Ahh OK. I didn't know the standard gas to mig with. Is there much difference to technique or is it only setup? i.e. can I practice a bunch on cheap steel before moving to more expensive aluminium?

    Yes, it's quite different - a spool gun feels and acts differently in your hand. I haven't done a heap but used a mates. I am lucky enough to be able to bring an HF AC TIG machine home from work when required which is about once a year.

    Start with arc and get a feel for that as it is much more forgiving than other forms of welding. As Toxic said, MIG requires clean metal and good prep whereas you can weld straight through all sorts of crap like rust and scale with an arc (although this isn't recommended). Also, you can make a great looking bead of weld with a MIG and get almost no penatration into the base metal if you don't know what you're doing. Get a heap of scrap steel and start practicing - there's no substitute. 👍
    If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.

  9. #29
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    If your budget is limited, it would pay to check out prices of gas. If you want to do tig then the cost of the machine is not much compared to the price of gas.
    If you rent a cylinder, eventually you will want to have it all of the time.
    If you purchase a cylinder it will make it a lot cheaper if your doing it for more than a year, assuming your not going thru heaps of gas and then you can do a deal with BOC. Prices of speed gas cylinders Buy Argon Cylinder Australia

    I found that the E size was good to cart around but went to a G as the G size is about 1/2 the price per m3. No so great to move around though. From memory the E (4m3) was around $170 to fill while the G (8.7m3) was $180.

    If your using it for thin steel then arc stability will be what your after, others will have a better idea, i've not done a lot of thin steel but i recon you will be down around the 30 amps for 1mm so duty cycle won't be a factor.

    I agree with the other comments on repairs, at that price range a warranty claim wont be a repair, it will be a new machine and as such no one will keep spares.
    I had a cheap Bossweld and it served me well for 4 years until ants build a nest around the power board and then it didn't do so well. I've now got a higher end Everlast and the support from them has been great.

    When I started with tig I found that this guy Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info had heaps of useful tips.

    Chears Glen

  10. #30
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    If you are in SE Old ring Greg owner of State of the Arc at Capalaba. He knows welders. Cheers

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