Thread: Six wheel studs to five wheel studs - why is it so hard?

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

But do they have tapered nuts that locate the wheels on tapers??? (like steel wheels)

Of course they (the steelies) do, but the 70's mags were just as loose on the hub, had flat seat nuts and didn't come loose if properly tightened. I'm not sure what taper seat nuts have to do with it, it's clamping force that induces friction between the wheel and the hub. Light oil on the nuts, clean threads and correct torque and it's unlikely a wheel will come off. Dry wheel nuts will bind long before correct clamping force is reached.

All I'm saying is that's the proper way to do it, to be honest i don't give a flying **** how yours are/were set up, personally I like precision and to build things properly so i don't have to re-torque my wheel nuts every time I drive to the shops, properly built things are reliable, and having observed your knowledge on this forum countless times, I would say you know that as well and probably a lot better than me. Your knowledge like many others has made me gain a great deal of respect for you on the forum.

However all I'm pointing out is the proper engineering way of retaining a wheel so you don't kill a bus load of nuns (or my family!!!) then have to pay the damages when insurance won't cover it.

Cheers
Will


COOL i just became a Wizard

Originally Posted by MR LR jnr.

All I'm saying is that's the proper way to do it, to be honest i don't give a flying **** how yours are/were set up, personally I like precision and to build things properly so i don't have to re-torque my wheel nuts every time I drive to the shops, properly built things are reliable, and having observed your knowledge on this forum countless times, I would say you know that as well and probably a lot better than me. Your knowledge like many others has made me gain a great deal of respect for you on the forum.

However all I'm pointing out is the proper engineering way of retaining a wheel so you don't kill a bus load of nuns (or my family!!!) then have to pay the damages when insurance won't cover it.

Cheers
Will


COOL i just became a Wizard

I respect your attention to detail, in many ways you remind me of my next door neighbour when I grew up. He would spend two weeks building a tailshaft at work to replace the one that I made him in half an hour at home. He's a fitter and turner, I'm an engineer. He understands precision, I understand forces.

Enjoy your Wizzing.

Mechanical Engineering is what I'm going to do , funny that, dad is a fitter and turner, he taught me a lot (as well as my farmer uncle) and i guess thats what rubbed off on me.

Cheers
Will

So I've seen:

• Steel wheels. Held on by tapered nuts.
• Old school alloys. Held by tubular nuts (which located the wheel on the stud) with flat washers. These were I'm pretty sure just generically made without consideration to centring as the nuts did the job.
• Old school alloys. Fitted with "Bolts"/"Studded Nuts", these had a tapered seat, again centring the wheel as a steel wheel would. A pain to fit as they also didn't use a ring to locate and you had to lift, hold and try to screw in the bolt. Then you had the wheel flopping all over the place on one bolt, the hub spinning every time you tried to fit the next one. Needed two people with 3 hands each.
• New alloys. Fitted to hubs with studs, where the centre hole is oversized, they are supplied OEM with generally plastic or only once I've seen steel centring rings to suit the OD of the hub/ID of the wheel. Seen this from BBS/Work etc. Many people have rings made to suit their application and wheel/tyre shops do offer this service so they can stock a generic size centre and use spacers to adapt.
• New Alloys. Fitted with tapered nuts, also using the hub to locate. As per Baz's notes on the X5. They use a tapered nut as they have a steel spare which requires the taper. And the usual BMW driver probably couldn't change the wheel let alone choose which is the right nut.
• Centrelock Wheels. Modern alloys (and we are talking racing apps now) use a tapered nut to locate concentrically as well as multiple pins to prevent rotation under load. Older steel centrelocks (MG, Jag, etc, usually spoked as well) also tapered but do not remember any locating pins for rotational forces.

I haven't done anything outside of what Bee uty has done, if it's good enough for an engineer, then it's good enough for me.

Gee I have been living dangerously for all these years.
RRC mags do not have a centre spigot that is tight or tapered nuts.

Any RRC with mags depends on its nut's clamping force for wheel security.

I have fitted the same system to my trailer , double horror!!!

I recall that RRC wheels failed in LR initial testing and so additional material was added making them 10KG to the steel wheels 13Kg.

All of this malarky depends on the strength of the wheel, and I recall that in many decades past, wheels were tested for ADR by driving the car in circles etc until they broke.

AFAIR centre spindle mounting was introduced by car makers to reduce NVH because of wheel runout. Maybe it has been since adopted by authorities as a standard, but wheel security depends on the strength of the wheels.
Regards Philip A

OK. i'm confuse mainly because i do not own a D2

I see you can buy spigot spacers which appear to be plastic therefore it look to me they would only assist with centering the wheel onto the hub and that the wheel nuts and studs would be doing all the work

is there any pics somebody could post so i can get my head around this centre bit

i can see both sides of the argument, would like to be on one side of the fence or the other