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Thread: Breakaway and lights

  1. #1
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    Breakaway and lights

    I discovered today that my van is wired to power the clearance lights when brake lights are powered. I've not noticed it before as my vehicle's parkers are always on with the engine running. This is improper wiring but a side affect is that the clearance lights are on if the breakaway switch is tripped, which I think is a good idea. Perhaps one day I'll rejig the wiring to bring the (LED) clearance lights on only when the breakaway switch is tripped. The breakaway switch gets its power from the house battery so there is plenty of reserve power for the lights. I previously wired the breakaway switch to power the (LED) brake lights.

    I don't know if the dodgy wiring is original or if added when ASC was added.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

  2. #2
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    Mystery solved! The tail light on one of the LED stop/tail lights wasn't working and was powering the stop lights. A few taps later the tail light started working and the short to stop lights was gone, well for a short while anyway as the tail light then failed again. Upon removing the light it works properly and no amount of tapping can upset it. The wire entry plug was a bit loose so now has silicone to hold it steady. As the particular brand/design is no longer available I'll refrain from replacing it with a slightly different version unless it fails again.

    A diode will be fitted to power the tail-lights if the breakaway switch is tripped because I think that could be a real safety feature. The brake lights are already powered via a diode from the breakaway switch if tripped.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

  3. #3
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    I was told that the breakaway should be connected to a seperate battery and not the house battery. The battery should be around 7ah and that is enough to power the brakes for the required 15 minutes. If you use the house battery there is a danger that if the breakaway is accidentally triggered the house battery can power the brakes for too long resulting in the brake magnets overheating and burning out.
    Fuji white RRS L494 AB

  4. #4
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    I prefer to run the risk of the magnets burning out after a few hours if indeed they would than have the brakes release when a small battery is too flat in less than half an hour to keep the brakes applied. Having an unlit van on or partly on the road at night would be very dangerous so having its brake and clearance lights on is just as important to me as having the brakes applied, although the breakaway switch could still be wired to trigger a relay to operate the lights. I'm considering adding a hazard blinker unit to operate both blinkers as well.

    If my van's breakaway switch is accidentally triggered then the clearance and brake lights would be tell-tale signs.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

  5. #5
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    I have a test in progress using an old magnet on a small piece of 8mm plate. I will check the temperature every 15 minutes for a while although as the magnet being from a 1990 van its insulation may not be too good.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

  6. #6
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    After an hour with the magnet sitting on a plate that is far less of a heat-sink than a brake drum, the centre temperature of the magnet rose from ambient of 36 deg to only 78 deg. The magnet had a starting resistance of 5.9 ohms which will draw 2.1A at 12.5V. The retired L322 test battery was at a constant 12.25V so the magnet was dissipating slightly less heat than a fully charged battery but far more than a little 7AH battery (20 Hr discharge rate, not 1 hour) which would be useless after powering 4 magnets for 30 minutes even though it would comply with the 15 minute regulation.

    My conclusion: the advice that the magnets would burn out using the house battery was grossly incorrect.

    Update: Test ended after 1.5 hrs with a magnet temperature of 82 deg. The coil resistance had decreased to 5 ohms so would have been drawing 2.45A at the end.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

  7. #7
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    Thanks Greame, I was going off the information provided by the breakaway controller manufacturer. My first thought was to connect to the house battery, they also told me that this was not compliant but checking the requirements it I couldn't find a requirement for the breakaway to be separate to the house.

    The other thing they did mention is that it is not unknown for people to steal the pin from the breakaway switch activating the breakaway controller. Their reasoning is that it is cheaper to replace the small battery than the house battery if this goes unnoticed and they are drained.
    Fuji white RRS L494 AB

  8. #8
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    Yes, someone stealing the pin and cable or just pulling the pin is a concern of mine. I went to replace the D shackle on the cable to the car with a clip but refrained as the D shackle can be done up tightly to make it a bit less able to be taken. I've just bought a spare switch and cable to keep in the van mostly in case the cable and pin get taken. I can pull the fuse or disconnect the switch for a temporary fix or unplug the relay that supplies power from the breakaway switch to the brake circuit to leave the clearance/tail lights on.

    My van's 100 Ah battery with its solar panel wont be flattened by the brakes being on if I'm away from it during a day. I'm reluctant to fit a timer to the circuit although a couple of hours should be plenty of time to apply the handbrake if breakaway has indeed occurred.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

  9. #9
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    Is there an anti theft device in there somewhere??
    "How long since you've visited The Good Oil?"

    '93 V8 Rossi
    '97 to '07. sold.
    '01 V8 D2
    '06 to 10. written off.
    '03 4.6 V8 HSE D2a with Tornado ECM
    '10 to '21
    '16.5 RRS SDV8
    '21 to Infinity and Beyond!


    1988 Isuzu Bus. V10 15L NA Diesel
    Home is where you park it..

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  10. #10
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    Today I tried taking-off with the pin pulled. None of the van's 4 wheels locked on fine sandy soil but the drag was significant for the 4.4 TDV8. However s small stick will separate the switch contacts so not much of an anti-theft device.

    Hazards now flash on breakaway.
    MY12 RRV 4.4 TDV8 AB, +LLAMS, +e-diff, +ACC stop/go. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
    VK2HFG and APRS W1 digi

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