Thread: Large Caravan TARE weights

Originally Posted by Wilyms

I have two daughters so pigtails means an entirely different thing to me

And I know a pig farmer.

Most people ( me included) are not up to speed on ADRs, yet many claim alsorts of wonderful rules. 10% ball weight, rated shackles, brake and load requirements, etc. To be clear, I do not have any issues with any of the rules, I just want to see them in print and not myth and hearsay.

Originally Posted by pop058

Most people ( me included) are not up to speed on ADRs, yet many claim alsorts of wonderful rules. 10% ball weight, rated shackles, brake and load requirements, etc. To be clear, I do not have any issues with any of the rules, I just want to see them in print and not myth and hearsay.

The general consumer does not need to be concerned with the details of the ADRs.
That’s for the manufacturers of the said product - whether it’s the entire vehicle or accessories such as bull bars and towbars

People are quoting ADR when they actually mean (state) Regulations OR the Australian Standards

The owner/driver is entirely responsible for the correct use of the end product and that’s where things get tricky.
The first level of this is the legislation and regulations (road rules of you like) in the state of registration (ie to be road worthy). This includes the limits placed by the vehicle manufacturers and the accessory manufacturers.

The second is the road rules in the state you are operating in.

These can can be mutually exclusive and vary wildly state to state.

The 10% towball weight "rule" is not actually a rule. It is a recommendation only. In Europe the recommendation is only 5%, hence the reason most car makers don't offer European spec towbars on vehicles for the Australian market.
Many caravan makers are focused on a price point, and aluminium is dearer than other framing materials. Also, the inherent flex in an alloy frame would make it harder to successfully glue the panels to the frame. It's all about the cheapest materials to use, and the lowest skills requirements for the assembly workers, (at least in the price-competitive end of the market).

Originally Posted by Wilyms

The general consumer does not need to be concerned with the details of the ADRs.
That’s for the manufacturers of the said product - whether it’s the entire vehicle or accessories such as bull bars and towbars

People are quoting ADR when they actually mean (state) Regulations OR the Australian Standards

The owner/driver is entirely responsible for the correct use of the end product and that’s where things get tricky.
The first level of this is the legislation and regulations (road rules of you like) in the state of registration (ie to be road worthy). This includes the limits placed by the vehicle manufacturers and the accessory manufacturers.

The second is the road rules in the state you are operating in.

These can can be mutually exclusive and vary wildly state to state.

" The general consumer does not need to be concerned with the details..."

" The owner/driver is entirely responcible ....."

Can't have it both ways. Yes the operator is responsible so they need to know the ( relevant) details. That is why I asked. When people start quoting rules and ADRs and they ( the rules ) cannot be found in print, the myths just keep going round and round. I would hazard a guess and say equipment retailers are pretty high on the list.

Originally Posted by pop058

" The general consumer does not need to be concerned with the details..."

" The owner/driver is entirely responcible ....."

Can't have it both ways. Yes the operator is responsible so they need to know the ( relevant) details. That is why I asked. When people start quoting rules and ADRs and they ( the rules ) cannot be found in print, the myths just keep going round and round. I would hazard a guess and say equipment retailers are pretty high on the list.

Thats called quoting out of context Pop!!

The ADRs and state Regs are very different beasts. Do you care that your D2 is complianced under ADR xx and a new D5 is complianced under ADR zz ??
Not one little bit

Do any of us know what that actually even means? Probably not

But do you need to know about hook turns if you are in Victoria but registered in Qld?
Yes you do

Do you need to know that maximum towing speed is different in different states?
You bet

Do you need to know if your tow rig is speed limited by the manufacturer if you tow at full GCM?
Also yes

Do any of the above have anything to do with ADR?
Nope, but everything to do with state laws and regs and the handbook.

Absolutely agree that myths are perpetuating and that people making money from them are at fault.
Lets looks at fishing rod and LED light bars sold with mouns to make it easy to mount on top of the bull bar. Totally against the regs but it’s up to end user to be aware of the details.

Even roof mounted light bars are ‘permitted’ in the ADRs but each jurisdiction has a (different) view.
The list goes on....

The ADRs are being blamed for things they don’t even cover because they are hard to understand and a good way for people to bluff others.

Not out of context at all. I did say relevant details of which you listed a few. Thanks.

My point is that the original poster of this thread stated that ( like the rated shankle myth) ball weight was mandated in ADRs. My question was/ is " where is that written down " in print, be it ADRs, regs, rules, anywhere actually ?.

Originally Posted by pop058

Not out of context at all. I did say relevant details of which you listed a few. Thanks.

My point is that the original poster of this thread stated that ( like the rated shankle myth) ball weight was mandated in ADRs. My question was/ is " where is that written down " in print, be it ADRs, regs, rules, anywhere actually ?.

I did forget the wink emoji.

Best I can do for Qld road users is this

https://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/S...uide.pdf?la=en

disclaimer - this is the dilution of everything from ADR to legislation to regulation to road rules so as to be a user friendly guide

For me, the use of ‘guide only’ in relation to the ‘connection of safety chain to towbar’ section via shackles says is it of the lowest order and thus won’t be specified in any document but needs to be fit for purpose

Same applies to the 10% TBM myth as it is not specifically mentioned
A search for results on the ADR web page had nil relevant results.