Thread: Possible? TD5 oil chain stopped the cam chain!

sounds like too much damage......i hope its not that bad........




as for the injectors filling sump........there wouldnt be that much fuel coming out to fill the sump.......
all you get is a tiny spray........pretty much a fraction of what a pump of nasal spray will deliver.......

and you know theres quite a lot of pumps in a little 50ml bottle......
if its diesel.........then theres a chance the injectors arent sealing and may be leaking down when the engine is switched off for any period of time......
such as over night for example......



with the coolant level low.......and the oil level up......and a different colour as well.......
i would say you have water in the sump........

How low was the water it. Most TD5's run low, under the mark anway, but looking at your sums the water system is 13 litres from dry, 8 as a refill, so it sounds like you have probably got a few litres of water in the sump

The water will be at the bottom if its not run so it will soon be apparent when taking out the plug.

As DZ says its very unlikely to be diesel in the sump

I dont think anything the oil pump bolt/chain could do would break the cam chain. When you look at it in relation to the chain that drives the oil pump, its far far bigger.

What did it sound like when it ran? That high a sump level is not good.

Good luck.

Rgds
Pete

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

How low was the water it. Most TD5's run low, under the mark anway, but looking at your sums the water system is 13 litres from dry, 8 as a refill, so it sounds like you have probably got a few litres of water in the sump
Coolant was 20mm below"cold" mark, this is low as it gets and is normal.

The water will be at the bottom if its not run so it will soon be apparent when taking out the plug.

As DZ says its very unlikely to be diesel in the sump
Drained sump tonight @14ltrs, grey not foamy (or tan like i've seen on petrols). Started to flow slightly thicker than normal,then turned very thin for @ last 6ltrs or so. I'm told slight smell of desiel by SHMBO(I've got a blocked nose,FLU).

I dont think anything the oil pump bolt/chain could do would break the cam chain. When you look at it in relation to the chain that drives the oil pump, its far far bigger.
Good point. Had alook from above aswell. Chain broke above lower gear on load (ie. tension) side. Gear striped. Oil pump chain looks intact(Maybe no damage to crank?).

Had closer look at rockers ect. exh; nos 3+5 broken, no 4 loose but not broken. This valve looks low but it's hard to tell.

Also managed to turn cam trough about 2/3 rotation.

What did it sound like when it ran? That high a sump level is not good.
Sounded normal, but possibly a slight tappet type noise now I think about it, certanly nothing BAD.
Good luck.

Rgds
Pete

Is it possible it bent/cracked a valve like http://www.aulro.com/afvb/discovery-...5-service.html

Just trying to get picture full picture.

THANK YOU and cheers Kyle.

Could your sequence be in reverse - the timing chain breaks , breaking the oil pump chain which is below and slightly back from the timing chain, all due to another problem - hydraulicing of a cylinder due to a cracked head gasket or water through the air intake?

Let us know when the head has been removed.

Good luck hoping for most cost effective problem.

Erich

What's the sigificance of the wombat hole, at the start of your post? Was it full of water. How deep was it?

Rgds
Pete

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

What's the sigificance of the wombat hole, at the start of your post? Was it full of water. How deep was it?

Rgds
Pete

Droped the beast in a wombat hole, I believe it affected the auto ECU (Went into limp mode), Pulled hoses from both sides of turbo and at EGR no water present. Air cleaner was damp only.
PICT1028.jpg Don't beleive they are related, just coincidence. Time will tell eh Pete.

Erich, I havn't pulled the sump off yet but I think the oil chain looks intact when Iook at it from above(ie. Looking into timeing cover)

Thanks Kyle.

Update time, penny for your thoughts.

Pulled the head off today(first fine day in 2 weeks)
Also pulled timing case off too.
Can,t get socket onto cross member so sump to come off later.

Think I broke 1 dowel(plastic),the outher shows head has moved,
Undid camshaft carrier, all valves sitting in head properly.
Checked face and no warping with a 250mm straight edge.
No obvious damage to valves or head face.
2 cam followers broken,the losse one looks like the Hyd. lifter may have collapsed.
Cam lobes and journals look OK.
Couldn't get Injectors out so leave it to experts.
Going to local machine shop tomorow so hears hoping all OK.

Oil pump bolt still in place so it wasn't that.
Still going to pull sump off to clean and do the bolt mod.

Intake manifold has a thick film of oil in it, the sensor was bloked and EGR full too.
No oil in intercooler, how-ever 100ml of clear water was in it(condensation?).


Pulled timeing chain guides off, they look OK exept for 1 small mark at top off each,
I'll change them any way
Oil squirter looks OK and isn't blocked.
Cam gear looks OK.
Crank gear to be cheacked when I get the oil pump chain off. OK at this stage.

No damage to top of pistons, bores look OK, all pistons apear to rise to same hight(just proud of block).

So...
Still haven,t found what caused the chain brakage, Could the shock of the cold water externally on the sump and block cause the chain to fracture?
Was thinking of changing all lifters and followers, Don.t know if I trust them to be OK,thoughts?
I'll send radiator and intercooler out for presure test and clean.
Whats the best way to clean manifold(Degreaser and presure cleaner)?
Can I flush the cooling sytem with the head off via heater hoses ect.?
Besides new steel dowels and head bolts is there any thing I should be changing now(besides usual hose and gasgets)?

Thanks in advance, maybe a beer instead of the penny if we meet.
Cheers Kyle.

I would suggest that you've "steamed" it.

your air cleaner was damp so some water has got in. this has reduced the available combustion area, not enough to hydraulic the engine (although its on the cards) but enough that when the injectors fired the fuel in everythings got super squeezy and hot which has flashed the water to steam and done bad things to the inside of the engine.

However my real money given that you have 100ml or so of water in the intercooler, grey oil and broken followers is that you have hydraulic'd the engine enough to lock a valve which has then stalled the cam. I've seen it in the tdi's a couple of times but not a td5 yet.

the final proof will be in the cam bearing journals being out of true and the cam being bent/twisted.

Hope I'm wrong and its the other way around the cam chain snapped and the open valves met the pistions.