The Ultimate FC

See the attached you tube

YouTube


Keep in mind this is in Germany in the middle of the cold war.
The Warsaw pact have much better amphibious vehicles and more of it.
To move in Germany with all the bridges destroyed means build new bridges quickly or amphibious vehicles.
The British were looking for ways to improve their mobility if war broke out.......(British army of the Rhine)
Most Stalwarts have a winch for self recovery up steep slippery river banks and as a part of its CES is equipped with a free board extension for the rear of the vehicle for use loaded on steep river banks.( None of that was shown in the film)
It should be noted the Stalwarts twin recovery cables already connected to the recovery eyes at the front of the hull and the winch cable and eye are arranged and normally stowed in away so they can be very quickly released and thrown to the front of the vehicle without leaving the roof hatch.
The Stalwarts winch is not designed for recovery of other vehicles as shown in the film.
If the Stalwarts winch is used for recovery of another vehicle, the parking brake must not be used........the vehicle needs to be anchored or held at all times with the foot brake.
Around this time the British army was trying the Stalwart with a metal track way carried on reel just above the cabin and it was released and the Stalwart travel along its self laying metal road way .
Rocket assisted exit from rivers was also experimented with on the Stalwarts.
The facts are the Stalwart is much better that a DUKW or in most cases a LARC for river crossings and getting up the bank and testing by the German army backed this up...............the Germany army did have a small amount of Stalwarts, but ended up with LARCs because of British government refusing the sale of the Stalwarts......there were still hard feelings over WW2.
The Landrover swimming is interesting too.
No progress on the Stalwart currently due to extreme temperatures , fires or as I type minor flooding.
The fun we have trying to work on a vehicle in your spare time in the elements.

Just finished reading through it, got to say it's only every so often the full scale of how big a vehicle this is (and the scale of your task) becomes obvious. You've been doing a magnificent job restoring her, thanks for posting here to let us follow along. Hope the project is going well.

Scrubbed that as resolved it

Hi Ron,

Just joined for a chat with you. I'm one of the admin of the Facebook HMLC group, Alvis HMLC 6 x 6 Stalwart public group | Facebook We've got members from a number of countries.
I'm Ex Royal Engineers and was a Stolly op for 2 years back in the 80's. Most of my Stolly work was pack fuel and Mk 7 anti tank mines.

I've been enjoying your restoration project, which has been recorded with detail to a high standard. I'm wondering if you've considered copy and pasting your text and photos into a word doc and turning in to a PDF - to share your experience with other owners. No need for the generic photos from the web, but it would be an interesting read for many on the group.

I've attached some images for you
Mark

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark_E

Hi Ron,

Just joined for a chat with you. I'm one of the admin of the Facebook HMLC group, Alvis HMLC 6 x 6 Stalwart public group | Facebook We've got members from a number of countries.
I'm Ex Royal Engineers and was a Stolly op for 2 years back in the 80's. Most of my Stolly work was pack fuel and Mk 7 anti tank mines.

I've been enjoying your restoration project, which has been recorded with detail to a high standard. I'm wondering if you've considered copy and pasting your text and photos into a word doc and turning in to a PDF - to share your experience with other owners. No need for the generic photos from the web, but it would be an interesting read for many on the group.

I've attached some images for you
Mark

Attachment 160107

Attachment 160108

Attachment 160109

Attachment 160110

Attachment 160111

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Hi Mark
thanks for the comments.
I Know of the face book site and its has some brilliant photos of the stalwart.
The ones you posted are very good too.
I don't post on the face book site as I have issues with the security of Face book .
This is no reflection on the Stalwart site and I hope it the best.
I would post on the old Stalwart forums site which is long gone.
As for turn is thread into a PDF....I am not computer savvy.
I post this for my own inspiration and its followers give me the drive to do more to the Stalwart I have.
If you read this thread from the start you should realise it was never intended that way.
I consider what I have posted on this thread information for all, if it helps another Stalwart owner.
The big thing I have never really been able to find out is my Stalwarts army and post service history in the UK.
The brass plate inside the cabin is missing...…..I believe a possible former owner of my Stalwart has this ,a fellow called Robin Day.
The hull number is 806 and I am told, but cannot confirm the army rego number was 90ET44,,,,just here say?
I cannot find any photos of that rego number in service anywhere.
I do know the stalwart was in Germany in 1982.....this is certain due to a lolly wrapper found in the cabin which could be dated and only sold in Germany
Its civilian UK rego number plates indicates it was in the Brighton area ???????
The swim gear looks to have been refitted at some stage , as the jet drives drive shafts appear to be shortened landrover items.
Someone also went to great lengths to place patch over patch to keep this Stalwart water tight indicating it has done some post service swimming???????
My stalwart has a high hour meter reading, but only just over 200miles on the odometer when I first got it, possibility indicating this stalwart has been swimming.
The tractor joints indicate the very low mileage, but no signs of water ingress at all.
Most of the rust in the upper body work of my stalwart has been caused by sitting uncovered out in the weather.
Any info would be helpful.
My stalwart also had a unusual light with alloy guard fitted to the rear most LHS of the vehicle at the rear of the tool box with a extra Clansman speaker.
I never have found a photo of a stalwart fitted with this at all.
the extra light was damaged during transport to Australia.
It was also fitted with a clansman speaker on the RHS at the front of the body near the cabin and brackets on the rear drop ally tail gate to hold a ladder of some sort.

The current status is I have not been working on the Stalwart due to working on another project and therefore no new posts.
Work will begin again soon.
The last time I moved the stalwart It lost the power steering, which on a twin steer vehicle with baggy low pressure tyres and a weight of 10 tonnes, makes things difficult and the I have a air leak some where as the compressor will not shut off.
that will have to be looked into next.
I am wondering if that hidden hydraulic strainer on limber model stalwarts has blocked again, despite me cleaning and changing out the hydraulic oil before.
Strangely my stalwart has rust holes in it, but not much now, the priority is the trailer to move it around on and get that finished , as when I get the steering and air systems sorted again, it useable, just not swimmable.
access to a towing vehicle is not far away.
To drive a standard Stalwart the long distances we have in Australia on a very complex 50 year old vehicle is asking for trouble especially as I cannot get parts in Australia and the Australian dollar is very weak at present against the Euro or Pound.
Regards
Ron

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark_E

Hi Ron,

Just joined for a chat with you. I'm one of the admin of the Facebook HMLC group, Alvis HMLC 6 x 6 Stalwart public group | Facebook We've got members from a number of countries.
I'm Ex Royal Engineers and was a Stolly op for 2 years back in the 80's. Most of my Stolly work was pack fuel and Mk 7 anti tank mines.

I've been enjoying your restoration project, which has been recorded with detail to a high standard. I'm wondering if you've considered copy and pasting your text and photos into a word doc and turning in to a PDF - to share your experience with other owners. No need for the generic photos from the web, but it would be an interesting read for many on the group.

I've attached some images for you
Mark

Attachment 160107

Attachment 160108

Attachment 160109

Attachment 160110

Attachment 160111

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Hi Mark
just about the excellent photos you posted
The one with what looks to be a rocket fired anchor to pull the stalwart up a greasy river bank is interesting and ties in with the video which I had linked a little bit earlier.
The bar mine layer photo is brilliant too.
I wonder why the Stalwart was never used much with the bar mine layer, as I see it as a perfect tractor with high traction to pull it and carrying capacity for lots of mines.
The carrying of jerry cans would have always been a interesting exercise in a Stalwart, specially hundreds of them.
One leaky jerrycan, or one with the cap not cammed over correctly with a slow drip, drip onto the alloy floor/engine cover and then onto that cherry red exhaust...…..(running shoes needed to be carried in the cabin especially if the two shot extinguisher system didn't work.)
It would have been bad enough to do this on a standard army truck, let alone over the engine of the stalwart.

I agree about Facebook security, and I'm glad that you've found and enjoyed the group. Most members forget to browse the photo albums of the group, and also don't look in the Files section. You know I'm going to use your photos for the group, right [wink11]
I'm currently looking for a PDF of the Operators handbook, to share on the group.

By the way, this is the stowage case for the Operator handbook rather than a map case.
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I'm sure you've seen this. People put the wrong substance in certain things. On my course at Leconfield, we were wrongly told by the Royal Artillery instructors to put grease in the torsion bars, but it's gearbox oil.

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Your's has clearly been modified by a civilian owner. The rust is because it was probably swam in the sea too much without being cleaned. Whilst they are sea worthy (and one soldier did come half way across the channel in one) they were designed for crossing German canals

At the back of the cab above the fuel filer pipe should be a Vehicle identification plate, which I'm guessing he removed
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Whilst Germany trialed a protoype, and France trialed a couple of Mk 1s, Sweden was the only other country to buy the Stalwart

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Swedish Mk 1's have the hydraulic winch fitted externally on the front of the cab, which guess inspired Alvis to fit the winch as standard on the Mk 2. all Mk 2 were made with winches.

Britain trialed various vehicles in Thailand at the same time as the Americans.We were building roads and airports for Thailand.
No sales came from the trials. The other vehicle is the FV437 Pathfinder. The idea being for it to swim across a canal and then winch any other vehicles up any step banks.

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But the Combat Engineer Tractor (CET) made that surplus to requirement, and FV437 never went in to production.
The CET sits very low in the water , even with it's additional buoyancy tanks
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The two German Mk 2 on the internet are actually ex British army that someone bought and painted up as German.

Someone mentioned about the Stalwart ousting a tracked 430 series load carrier. This is the FV431
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Radios were rarely fitted - and never fitted in fuel carrying vehicles. Most Stalwarts carried fuel or ammo. Some carried mines, some carried the Troops G1098 equipment.
Vehicles only carried radios and CS kit when going out on exercise, so radios in the sigs wing and CS in the MT store when not going out. Included in the Stalwart CS is two 25 litre water jerry cans, which sit on that plate in the corner of the louvres - that area at the back where the heat expels from the radiator. It gave lovely warm water to wash in on arrival at harbour area.
In the two years that I was on Stollys, we only fitted radios on one exercise - which was a one week squadron exercise. Stolly were used for carrying pallets of concrete Mk 7 AT mines, which guys passed over the side and others laid on the floor.
They used FV 432 for laying Barmines as they're sat protected in an armoured metal box in case of any enemy fire. Normally, Bedfords would be parked at the edge with the 432 going back for more

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Your Stolly has clearly been played with by the previous owner. The clansman speakers you show were fitted in APCs so the troops could hear any broadcast. Never fitted in any Stolly. Whatever was fitted in that rear corner also wasn't original, and looks from the holes like they had a few different things fitted over time.
Army heavy duty vehicle batteries are square things that fit anything from the back of FFR Land Rovers to tanks. Could you share some pictures of your batteries and tray, because that's not original?

Someone mentioned diesel engines. Some have fitted the Bedford 500 engine with good result, and some the Rolls Royce K60 which is a multi fuel engine. The MOD liked multi fuel engines in the 60s. The Bedford MK was a multi fuel engine, where as the MJ was pure diesel only. Whilst Alvis looked in to converting them to diesels, the need for amphibious vehicles had dropped and the Stalwart is costly to maintain. So the army ended up with Bedford TMs and the Foden/Scammell DROPS vehicles.

Someone also disputed the grunt of the Stalwart, but fails to acknowledge the hub reduction on these things. I slipped the off side wheels off the side of a road once as we stopped to let another convoy past. I had to turn round and join the other convoy, and she merrily grunted up the step bank with it's nose in the air to get it back on the road.
This is Arthur Dent, who fitted a Rolls Royce K60 engine - dragging a Chieftain. It's not struggling because of the weight, but because of the tracks being rusted.
YouTube

There is an Army recruitment film that I saw in the 70s (not yet found it anywhere) of supporting the front line. It's about cooks, and bringing supplies up to the front line. In the film, a Stolly drags a dead centurion tank along a gravel road.

I only ever got stuck once. Coming in to a harbour area in the woods one night I suddenly lost forward movement. I'd driven over a tree stump that was just the right height to stop it going forward or backwards. My main Stolly carried pack fuel. A max of 344 25 ltr jerry cans, which is around 7.5 tons. It should be remembered to keep the two hull drain plugs left out unless you are about to swim. Jerry cans are quite secure when closed properly, and I never saw any fire. There was one recorded fire in BAOR, which was a disgruntled soldier.
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But drain plugs should be left out to stop the hull filling with rain water. I know it's a tadge warmer on Australia, but I've seen a Stolly with frozen ice surrounding the engine.

You mentions about air lockers for the drive shafts. Remembering that it's a limited slip differential, you might find that you have as much trouble/damage just because there is no diff side to side.
PeeWee mentions that they don't like changing gear when going round the corner, but it's dipping the clutch that they don't like. I still clearly remember following a CVRT Spartan round a bend, but the driver had got his speed wrong and had to slow down halfway round the bend. The sight of the Staff Sargent leaning forward and beating the driver over the head with the microphone as I was forced to dip my clutch and kangaroo round was a happy sight [biggrin]

The Saracen has a higher ratio transfer box, which would give a higher road speed. I've driven from Osnabruck to Munster and back without problem, but had the knowledge of REME support if I needed it at the tax payers expense.

This is the limited B card for 90ET44 from RLC's website
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Which is got from Vehicle search - RLC Digital Archive
Also 90ET44 Vehicle History
- Merlin Archive

Some history was lost when the RCT museum at Leconfield closed and everything passed to RLC Deepcut.


Something else you need to do it the Bridge weight on the front.
The 622 GS version weighs 8.5, carries 5 tonnes and is a max of 14 tonne bridge classification.
The 623/624 Limber version weighs 10 tones and can only carry 4 tones to take it up to the 14 tonne max.
We had a guy go on an Instructors course at Leconfield before he'd done even a unit Operators course. When he returned they made him IC HMLCs and his first mistake was to paint all the Stolly at 15 instead of 14 Bridge classification. He'd somehow added the 10 t of limber to 5 of GS and made it 15. Embarrassed himself in front of the whole regiment.

Some civilian then decided that because the crane can lift 3 tons, that should be added to the 10 and 5 and came up with a Bridge classification of 18 - and that's why your's has 18 painted on the front instead of 14.

Oh, the fuel tank.
Whilst the GS has a 454 litre (100 imperial gallons) tank, the crane versions have a smaller tank at 405 litres because of the crane mount. There's a big dip in the middle

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Official fuel consumption was 4 miles to the gallon, apparently 70.6 l / 100 km in metric.
That's good compared to the Centurion at 4 gallons to the mile

You know that the chassis number is on the front Nearside ?
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Within the thread is a picture of the bug on a low loader.

it's actually a sound stage for gigs. It was used at the London 2012 Olympics opening ceremony

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The back end has been extended to form a stage. You can see the frame and flooring at the top of the pictur.
I guess the blocks are to stop it moving as they move around

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by 101 Ron

...
To drive a standard Stalwart the long distances we have in Australia on a very complex 50 year old vehicle is asking for trouble especially as I cannot get parts in Australia and the Australian dollar is very weak at present against the Euro or Pound.
...

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Stalwarts were never designed for long distance supply vehicles. The idea being the Low or Medium Mobility Load Carriers would bring them forward, and then Stalwarts would supply the tanks and artillery in the off road places.

Here's a video of Stolly bits from a Recruitment film dated 1990

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDtVPwc5pxA