Thread: JayBoRovers 101

Originally Posted by stuee

I've got a vac bleeder you can borrow. I can stick it in the car and drop it off after work tomorrow if you like?? I can bleed brakes without the wife now

The vacuum bleeder worked a treat on the front brakes. So easy to do on my own. Awesome. Although it was only the front brakes that I had worked on, replacing the jump pipe and thereby emptying the front system, the bleeder worked so well I decided to flush all the fluid on the back brakes too. I should have left well enough alone!

I think I've tried every trick I've come across but still no joy. Firstly I just hooked up the vacuum bleeder as I had for the fronts and pulled fluid through until it was clean, new fluid from both sides. But a press of the brake pedal goes to the floor the first time then half way and feels good the second time. I removed both rear wheels and the drums, wound all four shoe adjusters right back and put a ratchet tie-down strap around the brakes shoes on both sides. Then bled again with the vacuum adjuster. Still no good.

So then I hooked up some clear tube and got the wife out to help with a traditional bleed to see if I could see any air-bubbles coming out with the fluid. (The vacuum bleeder makes this hard to see because a lot of air obviously comes in via the bleed nipple thread and/or around the connector, making the fluid all aerated). I got two small bubbles from one side but clean and pure both sides apart from that. Tried the pedal again but no change.

I thought I'd better check that the problem was just with the rear brakes so I clamped the rear jump hose and the pedal was instantly good. Half pedal travel on the first pump and it was solid. Removed the clamp and the pedal goes to the floor.

So I couldn't get it sorted this weekend, and I have other things arranged for next weekend, so it's going to be a couple of weeks before I can get to it again. Aaarrggghhh

Thy wedging something between the apportioning valve and the lever to stop the spool moving out, should give you a better chance

As Brute said - the apportioning valve will need to be in a bit to make life easier for you. I just undid the locknut and wound the adjuster bolt in and that made things much easier.

I got my brakes to 90% just by letting gravity do the work. Wound all the brakes on hard with the adjusters, then used a small piece of clean clear hose on the bleed nipple, open the bleeder up and just keep topping up the reservoir until all the bubbles are gone. I did this once I'd got all the old fluid out, so I could swap the clean fluid over each time and not waste it.

After that, I had an assistant (Mick) in the front seat while I wizzed around underneath doing each corner a couple more times.

Readjust the brakes and all was good. That was from a totally enpty system as I replaced all the flexible lines like you.

Keep at it - they are a bit of a PITA, but no different from any other series LR brakes I've worked on.

More playing with the 101 until after dark today. It's becoming a habit. Anyway, had a play with the apportioning valve because I figured I'd follow the advice here and fool it into thinking there was a load aboard so it would allow full fluid flow to the rear drums. So I found a piece of steel rod, with a nicely angled plate welded on the end, just the right length to prop between the diff housing and the adjustable lever on the apportioning valve. Set it in place with the angled plate resting against the back of the adjuster and then lightly tap the rod to drive the plate along and pressure the valve. Doesn't move! It seems like the valve is probably stuck if it's supposed to move. At rest there is a few millimetres clearance between the end of the adjustable lever and the end of the valve. My prop rod takes up this clearance and then I can keep tapping it down and the valve doesn't move.

So tomorrow's job will be to remove the valve and have a play. While I was in the neighbourhood though, and seeing as I'll have to drain the rear fluid system anyway to remove the apportioning valve, I did replace the rear brake jump hose. So now both the front and rear jump hoses are brand spankers. Hoping for some better news tomorrow but I suspect it'll become a job bigger than me. I'm about to go and re-read Stu's experience as a refresher.

Originally Posted by JayBoRover

More playing with the 101 until after dark today. It's becoming a habit. Anyway, had a play with the apportioning valve because I figured I'd follow the advice here and fool it into thinking there was a load aboard so it would allow full fluid flow to the rear drums. So I found a piece of steel rod, with a nicely angled plate welded on the end, just the right length to prop between the diff housing and the adjustable lever on the apportioning valve. Set it in place with the angled plate resting against the back of the adjuster and then lightly tap the rod to drive the plate along and pressure the valve. Doesn't move! It seems like the valve is probably stuck if it's supposed to move. At rest there is a few millimetres clearance between the end of the adjustable lever and the end of the valve. My prop rod takes up this clearance and then I can keep tapping it down and the valve doesn't move.

So tomorrow's job will be to remove the valve and have a play. While I was in the neighbourhood though, and seeing as I'll have to drain the rear fluid system anyway to remove the apportioning valve, I did replace the rear brake jump hose. So now both the front and rear jump hoses are brand spankers. Hoping for some better news tomorrow but I suspect it'll become a job bigger than me. I'm about to go and re-read Stu's experience as a refresher.

See if the valve pulls out. I believe in the rest position its actually open, its only when pressure is applied that it closes, so you need the angled plate to stop it closing during bleeding. I don't know if the vacuum bleeder is enough to close the valve, but definitely modulating the pedal moves it out on both the valves I've used. The old valve I replaced leaked when you pressed the pedal too!

Originally Posted by stuee

See if the valve pulls out. I believe in the rest position its actually open, its only when pressure is applied that it closes, so you need the angled plate to stop it closing during bleeding. I don't know if the vacuum bleeder is enough to close the valve, but definitely modulating the pedal moves it out on both the valves I've used. The old valve I replaced leaked when you pressed the pedal too!

Ah okay. So maybe it's open now and the vacuum bleeding it makes it close. I'll check for that. Does it seems right that there's only about 2 or 3 mm air gap between the end of the valve and the adjustable lever with no load in the bed.

(That is "no load" which is actually quite a load with the spare wheel handing off the steel framed rear door, the LPG system, the Nocken winch and the world's heaviest tow bar system all combining to make my Tare weight 2,560kg! With GVM of 3,143kg that leaves me with 580kg for load. Put 87kg of petrol in, a pair of people of 160kg and that leaves 333kg for removable load!) You can understand why I'm thinking of removing the LPG system as a simple way of dealing with the lack of certification for the installation.

Pretty sure it mentions the GVM being increased to 3600 odd in that James Taylor 101 book, take that with you next time you go to the pits, or just put a new plate on and show them it.

So I've removed the apportioning valve, complete with the bracket, the coil, the vertical rod and the bracket from the diff housing end. The only bolts that wanted to play were the "end of the line" ones of the entire system, so I removed the whole thing.

I pulled everything apart on the workbench and the valve now moves freely in and out a fair bit (I'll measure the travel after lunch). So I'm bead blasting everything and will paint it all before putting it all back on again. Looking good so far.