Do we have 15-20 year cars in the Puma

I'd like to know what the difference is with the transit fitted to defenders and the ones fitted to the vans,the water board here in town run transits and they have prooven to be more robust than any previous vehicles,so much so they are being replaced with new transits as there time comes up.A mate of mine works there and his was filled with half a tank of petrol but suffered none the worst for it.The gloss is wearing off many new work vehicles,the 79 series is having some annoying and wierd problems that really shows the cost cutting tojo are doing. Pat

Pat I don't think the issue really is the motor didn't lr engineers make some good changes to the motor ford took on board ?

Main problems with Pumas seems to be with anything drivetrain related and maybe poorley made transfer box?

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Originally Posted by PAT303

I'd like to know what the difference is with the transit fitted to defenders and the ones fitted to the vans,the water board here in town run transits and they have prooven to be more robust than any previous vehicles,so much so they are being replaced with new transits as there time comes up.A mate of mine works there and his was filled with half a tank of petrol but suffered none the worst for it.The gloss is wearing off many new work vehicles,the 79 series is having some annoying and wierd problems that really shows the cost cutting tojo are doing. Pat

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I dont think the engine is the problem, like you say they are used all over, and to be honest in the UK thats all that is used. They get abused to all hell, but still have the niggly issues such as the vac pump leak (our transit is also leaking) the worst bit is that i have been quoted $900 to replace here. I can buy a new part from the UK for 35 quid (70 dollars) i'm pretty sure if the parts were that cheap over here then it would become a bit like the oil in the loom td5 issue, pretty much a service item its cheap, fairly easy to replace and just has to be done sometimes.. but for $900 you dont want to be doing it every couple of years!

All the other issues.. well i'm pretty sure the TD5 and 300TDI probably went through the same sort of thing too.. but maybe the internet and forums werent so widely developed to bring people and issues so closely together. Its easy to find issues and hundreds of them.. its been said many times before on here and its human nature!

I just hope you puma guys finally have the fixes put in place and they start behaving...

Steve

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Originally Posted by incisor

me thinks you fellas need to harden up :P

you think it's hard putting up with a 1 yr old land rover

have some pity for us guys that drive 30 year old ones and battle to keep them on the road as daly drivers.

look at the range rover, always railed as the most unreliable 4wd, yet time and time again they come up as the most capable in real life .

the capability comes at a price, always has, always will.

what makes you guys special [insert tongue in cheek smilie here] :D

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Heh, reminds me of a post I saw on a UK landrover forum a few days ago. The poster was worried that his Defender wasn't leaving puddles of oil on his garage floor like everyone elses Defender, and he wanted to know what was wrong with his. Not only was this deemeda perfectly valid question, but cue twenty posts from other members of the forum, telling him to check various oils and fluids, because if they weren't on the garage floor, then something must be empty :D I'd love to see the response from Ford if I wrote in to tell them that their Transit wasn't dumping oil all over my nice clean driveway :D

I guess as Landy owners, we accept (whether we realise it or not) that our vehicles aren't "buy and forget", but more of a continuous hobby, where we'll be changing bits, doing upgrades, etc, until the next Defender purchased.

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Originally Posted by stace70

Well one month out from handing over the hard earned and reading this makes me second guess myself as to whether I should be happy doing a $500 deposit and walk away from the sale...

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Stace - don't despair. There are good ones out there that have not had issues. Some just seem to have been Monday morning or Friday afternoon cars. Poor Scallops and Mrs Ho Har (? Diana - or is it Lots-a-landies...) have had very bad runs.

If you expect a few teething issues, then you can be pleasantly surprised if it all goes without a hitch. We have had a good run with ours (2007 110 - new rear diff under warranty + new CD player under warranty), and I guess there are lots of others who have too, but you can't make an internet post out of 'nothing went wrong on my holiday adventure'.

Hope yours is one of the good ones.

Cheers
David

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Originally Posted by pc3

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My cruiser ute was still going great after 10 years of ownership.... I think Puma owners will need to start putting "stronger components" in as stuff breaks out of warranty. I see a "Puma" cottage industry starting up.
<snip>

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So will we now be seeing a new generation of Land Rovers re-powered by a new generation of smaller Isuzu turbo diesels in line with weight of the Puma engines?

It seems that Isuzu owners swear by them.

What I see as the differences between the new Landies and the old Series engines is that old parts are mechanical and can often be repaired, the new components often contain microprocessors that have wizard like abilities but tend to fail leaving the driver stranded. I think it will be the microprocessor parts that will be difficult to acquire. The final factor is the supplies in the parts chain, given that motor manufacturers only have to provide support for old models for something like 5 years, they only manufacturer parts to supply over that 5 years. Older vehicles the supply chain seemingly went on for decades. I can remember as a teenager going into Grenville Motors at Five Dock to pick up an OEM exhaust system for a 25 year old 80" Land Rover. I can't see Alto, Trivett, Purnell or Classic Land Rover still being able to supply OEM parts for the Puma in 2033.

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Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

SNIP
Older vehicles the supply chain seemingly went on for decades. I can remember as a teenager going into Grenville Motors at Five Dock to pick up an OEM exhaust system for a 25 year old 80" Land Rover. I can't see Alto, Trivett, Purnell or Classic Land Rover still being able to supply OEM parts for the Puma in 2033.

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My Father-in-law bought a new gear lever two weeks ago for his 1967 Fiat tractor. Had to accept the previous (1964) model lever because that was all the Fiat dealer network had available. Mind you, after 40+ years sitting on a dealer's parts shelf, needed the surface rust cleaned off it first!

Back a little more on topic, I think the basic framework of the Puma will survive as well as any of the coil-sprung versions but the driveline cost-cutting that has been going on since the design was first laid down in the 1980's will mean that very little will be salvagable to keep Countys etc going.

As to what to repower with, I'm guessing we'll all be forced down the line of a gas turbine diesel/electric hybrid system, or something like it, by emissions rules, regardless of what the original power supply was or the age of the chassis.

When the 200TDI came out, Defender was offering whole motors as repower for Series vehicles. I'm hoping that the 2013 (or whenever) diesel/electric hybrid system is designed for retrofitting. And that the electronics are vibration- and water-proof

Whats the vac pump leak?,do they leak out of the cover like Tdi's?. Pat

I'm a bit wooly on the leak but from what i can see it leaks from the gasket between it and i think the water pump... sometimes quite catastrophically.. there is another gasket also that leaks near the water pump... but i beleive there are upgraded gaskets now... i'm also onl talking from the transit engine... as ours is going to have to be fixed soon..

It was one of the most common failures i think for the first pumas.. ?

Steve

from what I got from the dealers (and what I managed to work out by putting a transit next to a new one) theres not much different in the motors, the turbo, exhaust and fuel system are modified as is the intake but you expect that, Im told the deefer mapping is significantly different.

I suspect they also use a different clutch.

there was 2 leaks from the vac pump 1 was from the front seal and the other was from the sealing gasket. from memory they had 2 go rounds on the seal and the gasket one was limited to a batch of engines that the housing wasnt torqued down on properly. the seal one was the one that had the potential to go catastrophic.